people that hate the dragonball seires

Youkai_Lady · Post by **Youkai_Lady** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:24 pm

Pie Row Maniac wrote:Repetitive storyline.
Drawn-out battles.
Re-used dialouge.
Enough holes in the plot to resemble the victim of a gatling gun.

I remember the days when I would save up for tapes of it.
Ah, youth.

Ah my thoughts exactly...

Deadly NightShade · Post by **Deadly NightShade** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:33 pm

Just this one little point:

bote wrote:From the year it started to air in other parts of the world (1998-When GT ended in Japan) DB series have earned 1.4 billion dollars! Something that "sux" or "blows" cannot possibly earn so much. If it were crap then it wouldn't have been the most popular anime in the world.

At this point I'd like to mention Britney Spears who has managed to sell 54 million copies of her first three albums. Then we'll look at the average sales price for an album, and it ranges from $12.99 to $19.99, so on the low end of that, 15 times 54 million is $810,000,000. Then that's not adding in all of the Pepsi products that she's advertised, and that's also not taking into account all of her newer albums. I'd say that's right up there with DBZ and yes I would say that Britney both "sux" and "blows"; I'd also add that she's crap and she was the 'Pop Princess' for quite a while (especially considering pop trends).

Wow. The Dragon Ball Series, what a can of worms.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:48 pm

Deadly NightShade wrote:I'd also add that she's crap and she was the 'Pop Princess' for quite a while (especially considering pop trends).

You do realize you're not proving your point here, right? By using her as the comparison, you're just showing more proof that the masses determine quality, not the 'love-to-haters.' Put the anti fans up against the fans, and no matter how much you hate dbz or pop princesses, the fans outnumber you. Unless you're the king of your own country, or live in a nice dictatorship, majorities rule. So you might hate these popular things, and you might think they suck worse than the drawings you did when you were six and couldn't color in the lines, but your opinion is one against hundreds - aka, it doesn't change the fact that the anime is 'great' to its fans, and 'great' in comparison to less popular anime.

Think about it - if you live in the US, what determines who is the best candidate for presidency? Popular vote. So, do you really think the fact that you hate Brittany Spears means she's bad? It doesn't, it means you disagree with the popular majority - that you're a 'love-to-hater' of anything popular that you don't think deserves the attention it gets. Why else would you compare DBZ and a pop idol? Both are insanely popular, and both have their disloyal groups running around saying "they suck no matter how many people think otherwise because I am right and my opinion counts more than thousands of stupid fans who just aren't smart enough to know better."

After a while, all it comes down to is how you define 'great'. Is it your opinion alone (making you God and a better judge than the rest of the humans out there with their inferior brains), or is it the collective decision? A genius might find Brittany to be worse than listening to fingernails on a chalkboard - but he'd still know better than to say she wasn't great when she sells better than any of her competition. Terms like 'best' and 'great' are subjective, yes, but when it comes to widely known things like pop stars and anime, it's the combined opinion of the masses that determines which is 'better' - not the opinion of the few who 'are smart enough to disagree.'

Want a small comparison? How do we determine what the best amvs are on this site? Popular opinion. You don't have to like the 'best' vids, but because most people gave them that title, they remain the best regardless of how you might feel about them. It's the same with anything that gets 'awarded' according to popularity - whether it's pop singers or anime.

Tono_Fyr · Post by **Tono_Fyr** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:14 pm

The president isn't decided by the people, you know... it's the electoral college. In other words, the smarter people decide in that case... Completely going against your point.

I personally dislike DB anything cept GT because it's all the same story over and over again outside of GT, and even in GT it's a stupid rush to save the bloody world, it's just that it doesn't feel like all the enemies are the same.

The reason Z fans don't like GT is because GT does have something resembling a story. Z is literally a character developement session that went on far too long. Basically, it's the anime equivalent of a Soap Opera.

*inverse* · Post by ***inverse*** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:20 pm

I suppose I'm a little biased because I don't like the animation. I do love action animes, like Naruto and Yu Yu Hakusho, but when you compare the animation styles, DB seems much less appealing.

Deadly NightShade · Post by **Deadly NightShade** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:55 pm

I like your argument Arigatomyna because what you're saying in this case is that someone who can sit down and say that even though they hate an anime it is actually good because of this this and this quality has the same vote of quality as someone else who sits down and says that an anime is great because they love it, and when asked to list qualities and failings finds no qualities and many failings, but still calls it great. Which just doesn't ring right somehow. As for opinions deciding how good a video is, the whole point of those long rating forms that we have that describe each field is to try and separate it from a simple "I like it so it's good."

Oh well. In an attempt to save this reply from being the cause of the thread being locked...

A major problem in DragonBall Z it seemed to me was that there were way too many inconsistencies in the plot line. All of a sudden the super saiyans who were supposed to be the most powerful beings ever were struggling and dying against all these enemies, and had to band up to be worth one supervillain. That doesn't quite seem to flow right.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:41 pm

Deadly NightShade wrote:As for opinions deciding how good a video is, the whole point of those long rating forms that we have that describe each field is to try and separate it from a simple "I like it so it's good."

Yeah, they try to make it 'intelligent thought provoking.' But review Euphoria and take a look at most of the reviews that video has (the 'All Opinions page - you can see all reviews for any vid you've reviewed) - it isn't number one because people considered the ratings. It's number one because of those "I like it so it's absolutely the best thing in the world" reviews. ^.~ Anime is the same way. Some people (myself included) can tell you exactly why they like DBZ, but others are just like your average reviewer - they like it because they like it and that's all you need for the popular vote. It's the sum of the money the anime makes, not why people are dishing out that money. Viewers tend to be superficial like that.

A major problem in DragonBall Z it seemed to me was that there were way too many inconsistencies in the plot line. All of a sudden the super saiyans who were supposed to be the most powerful beings ever were struggling and dying against all these enemies, and had to band up to be worth one supervillain. That doesn't quite seem to flow right.

Heh, I haven't watched the entire series and don't plan to - especially not Dragonball (I hate baby Goku whether it's Dragonball or GT, same way I dislike Goten the 'baby-Goku-reincarnate' from the latter part of DBZ). But I've read enough to know all the various inconsistencies and plot holes in the anime. Every anime I've watched has drawbacks - things I hate about it (even YYH, my favorite anime). What counts to me is whether or not I'll watch the anime despite those 'pet peeves.' I still like DBZ - for the characters. So anyone who tells me the anime is *just* about fighting isn't watching the same show. I don't mind some fighting now and then, but if there weren't detailed characters growing through the series, I wouldn't bother watching it. The characters are good, though - and with such a long anime, there's plenty of room to build on them. I love anime that build their characters in a reasonable progression (short anime tend to shove it all into a few episodes and make unrealistic changes in the characters' personas).

I know why I like DBZ, and I know what I hate about DBZ. But I think it's a great anime because of how many people love it. Heck, even the large number of people who hate it (who hate the fans of it more than the show itself since most have never watched it) - even those dissenters just add to the masses who know DBZ. It's an icon of its time, and that makes it a great 'famous and popular' anime.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:57 pm

Pyle wrote:I desire anime's that have a sense of fullfillness in them, aka. Escaflowne. They had fight's and wars in that anime, but it was all for a reason, and each fight and a story behind it.

i don't think there were any (at least not any major fights) that were pointless
drawn out yes, but the fighting is part of what made DB so popular, so of course it's natural for Toriyama to have the Z episodes focus more of that aspect of it

i think the manga is probably always the best way to go, i don't remember how many episodes Piccolo vs 17 lasted, but it was only one chapter in the manga from them beginning to end

i also agree with Ari's argument, she has it summed up nicely as always

Pyle wrote:Anyways, onto the ep I saw. He's chasing some guy around and corners him in a house. He pulls at seven ninja stars, hurling them each one at a time. The man pulls a mat off the floor and block's each ninja start with one mat.

The seventh star nails him in the forehead. He starts wailing and screaming about how the designer promised him seven mats and not six. He turns around and runs out the door, Goku hot on his heels.

=_=. I thought anime was supposed to be different from american cartoons.

x2, i read that part in the manga, it was weird how these super killers were so stupid.. but i guess, as always, people were simplier back then..

Tono_Fyr wrote:The reason Z fans don't like GT is because GT does have something resembling a story. Z is literally a character developement session that went on far too long. Basically, it's the anime equivalent of a Soap Opera.

nah, i don't like GT because the characters seem so friggin different than they were before, they could have made the transition a bit smoother
Goku was the biggest change, he's suppose to be innocent type, but in GT, it's like he enjoys killing

also, not just the dubbing, but the whole character expressions seem so cheesey, so i don't like the animation how it's a step down imo

as for the electoral college, popularity decides who gets the electoral votes of which states... so it's a very grey area

Gogetasan85 · Post by **Gogetasan85** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:40 am

ANYONE SAW THE DB 20TH ANNIVERSARY MOVIE???
IT IS TRUE THAT FOR SOME REASON WHEN THEY POWER UP IT DOESNT DESTROY THE EARTH. WHATS UP WITH THAT
P.S. ANYONE WHO DISSES NARUTO MUST DIE[/quote]

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:55 am

Jebadia wrote:when it takes 11 episodes for one 5 minute fight and pointless dialogue? Oh that's DBZ...hmmm

I don't think I have any issues with Dragonball....I just don't like most of the vids that come from it...

The fight wasn't 5 minutes.