The Horror, the sheer absolute Horror

Bulghod · Post by **Bulghod** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:03 pm

Scintilla wrote:Is this the part where someone points out that Osamu Tezuka, <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=U ... considered by many</a> to be the "father of anime", was quite influenced by the artwork of Disney?

Cultures borrow from other cultures all the time. Anime is no exception, and neither are American anime-styled toons. Get over it.

i don't think it's culture. i think it's just business. i dunno, maybe i'm just getting paranoid about the whole corporation thing and noticed this to be another aspect of it.

besides, i doubt that Tezka looked at it and said (in japanese) "Holy shit if i could do this i'd be rollin in the bucks"

TheKorovaMilkbar · Post by **TheKorovaMilkbar** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:05 pm

As long as people can make money, it will never end.

Bulghod · Post by **Bulghod** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:06 pm

maybe it will, again grunge, hair metal, americans getting obsessed over australian culture back in the 80's.....

TheKorovaMilkbar · Post by **TheKorovaMilkbar** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:08 pm

Bulghod wrote:maybe it will, again grunge, hair metal, americans getting obsessed over australian culture back in the 80's.....

........Wow, you just described me. (except for the australian part)

I live for the 80's and everything about them.

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:11 pm

Kajino Rei wrote:As I said before Duke, rip-offs of any kind are worthless and meaningless.

This is what I was trying to say before... By the very definition of anime, any anime-styled American toon is a "rip-off" as you call it, no matter how close to anime it may look, merely because of the fact that it's not produced in Japan. But here you're saying that <i>because</i> they're rip-offs, they're "worthless and meaningless".

What I'm trying to say is, what is so special about Japan that any animation coming out of it should have more worth and meaning than an animation produced in a different country but with a similar style?

To put it another way, hypothetically Americans could have produced Cowboy Bebop or Evangelion and made them as good as they are, but by your argument, they'd still be "worthless" "rip-offs".

That's what I don't agree with.

Bulghod · Post by **Bulghod** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:12 pm

coolness, speakin of which, Clockwork Orange has to be one of the greatest, if not the greatest, movie Stanley Kubrick has ever done (even though that's not an 80's thing)

Kajino Rei · Post by **Kajino Rei** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:18 pm

Scintilla
No, no.
I said ALL rip-offs are worthless and meaningless.
What's so special about Japan? Anime for one.
What's so special about the US? Disney World.
This Animerime (or whatver the name) is not similar style, it is an attempted and premeditated rip-off that fails miserably.
Disney = US
Anime = Japan

Anime is Japanimation from JAPAN.
If anime is Japanese then no other country can do anime because only Japan is Japan.
Creations have creators and no one can take that away from them.
Just like no Disney-styled cartoon will ever be Disney then no anime-styled creation will be anime.
That's it, I'm done.
Let's talk about the 80's.

Bulghod · Post by **Bulghod** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:23 pm

Kajino Rei wrote:There's only two things left to say then:

1)The thread is paranoid-pointless.

yup, and it's an excuse for me to bitch!!!

Scintilla wrote:What I'm trying to say is, what is so special about Japan that any animation coming out of it should have more worth and meaning than an animation produced in a different country but with a similar style?

To put it another way, hypothetically Americans could have produced Cowboy Bebop or Evangelion and made them as good as they are, but by your argument, they'd still be "worthless" "rip-offs".

but then you're going on the basis that they didn't change anything, not character designs, not layouts, nothing as far as appearance goes. it's possible that if Americans did this, they would have used a different art technique, or even live action.

oh and one thing that i just remembered, to even things out. The Wolverine: Snikt! manga, obvious rip-off from... a... certain... comic book superhero....

so the rippin off and copyin is still an international thing. but i just want to make sure that we don't end up with the rip-offs as the MAIN thing in American animation. like i thought Nick already did the anime-copyin with Danny Phantom in all honesty, so the Avatar show was like "Dude, not again!!!"

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:24 pm

This thread is hurting my conscience.

I find it far more interesting looking at and assessing the sorts of elements that western animation is 'borrowing' from Japan today, because it's likely that they're based on research of the market and rather than having to do with just sleazy cheapness, are caused probably by what the target audience likes about anime...

And frankly, I don't think this is any worse/more commercial/more immature than the japanese productions that the same target audience has been receiving for years.

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:39 pm

Bulghod wrote:
Scintilla wrote:What I'm trying to say is, what is so special about Japan that any animation coming out of it should have more worth and meaning than an animation produced in a different country but with a similar style?

To put it another way, hypothetically Americans could have produced Cowboy Bebop or Evangelion and made them as good as they are, but by your argument, they'd still be "worthless" "rip-offs".
but then you're going on the basis that they didn't change anything, not character designs, not layouts, nothing as far as appearance goes. it's possible that if Americans did this, they would have used a different art technique, or even live action.

You missed the point. I was saying that the definition of anime hinges on where it's produced, so that all that other stuff becomes irrelevant and it's still a "rip-off". It seemed to me that Kajino Rei was completely not allowing for the possibility that a "rip-off" could actually be <i>good,</i> and I was trying to give a counter-example. But that argument's over, so on to the next quote...

Otohiko wrote:And frankly, I don't think this is any worse/more commercial/more immature than the japanese productions that the same target audience has been receiving for years.

Thank you for finally pointing that out. It's all about the target audience, and how animation generally isn't made for the older crowd in the US (with some few exceptions... the Simpsons, Family Guy, and South Park come to mind).