The second coming of Evangelion????

RadicalEd0 · Post by **RadicalEd0** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 1:50 am

good job, way to be wrong
in the series shinji accepts instrumentality, everyone is happy yay have a big orgy
in the movie shinji utterly rejects instrumentality upon realization that it isnt reality but an escape, 'running away' and therefore he decides against it. The whole thing proceeds to fall apart and life is returned to the physical earthly existance of before.

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:23 am

RadicalEd0 wrote:good job, way to be wrong
in the series shinji accepts instrumentality, everyone is happy yay have a big orgy
in the movie shinji utterly rejects instrumentality upon realization that it isnt reality but an escape, 'running away' and therefore he decides against it. The whole thing proceeds to fall apart and life is returned to the physical earthly existance of before.

I'm not going to come back to this thread to read replies, but I had to step in and say that you are an idiot and you can't read your own language.

There is more than enough information in the TV version of Evangelion to make it VERY CLEAR that Shinji doesn't accept Instrumentality

1) The title of the episode makes it clear
2) The conversations make it clear
3) The very nature of the series makes it clear
4) The subtext makes it clear

It is as clear as night and day to anyone who bothers to pay attention

Shinji refuses instrumentality in the TV show and he refuses it in the movie.

IT IS VITAL that he refuses it and if you didn't understand that, you missed way too much of the series.

-Uncle Milo

klinky · Post by **klinky** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 3:39 am

Milo! Every Eva post you say you're not going to play much part in, but you like to really :O. You should just make a text file with your standard eva quibbles so you don't waste time. Just cut and paste your arguements in and wa-la.

I would love to see a pre-quel ^_^ Kawaii little misato.. {passes out}

That would be really cool super awesome.

~klinky

UncleMilo · Post by **UncleMilo** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:00 am

klinky wrote:Milo! Every Eva post you say you're not going to play much part in, but you like to really :O. You should just make a text file with your standard eva quibbles so you don't waste time. Just cut and paste your arguements in and wa-la.

I would love to see a pre-quel ^_^ Kawaii little misato.. {passes out}

That would be really cool super awesome.

~klinky

I know.

Because I have been so moved by EVA and because I have put so much work into finding my answers and discussing it with people who know what they're talking about, it has helped me build up my understanding of EVA. When I first saw it, I understood the basic message of the show immediately. My friend and I, after seeing the last two episodes, discussed the show and the messages of the show for a solid 6 hours. Later on, I got to explore other aspects of the show... I learned some messages others got out of it (and I mean well defended messages, not just people who are regergetating something they probably read on another message board... like these assholes who think that Shinji CHOSE Instrumentality when it is so clearly spelled out he didn't... you know... if you actually watched the show and paid a little attention)

anyway... each discussion gave me that much more insight on the show. Sometimes I would change a thought I had and rebuild my views based on this new information or new perspective
and other times, I would appretiate the other's views...but not really feel convinced it was correct and stay with my thoughts as they were.

While I have schooling in film, film theory, and film history... as well a smattering of philosophy and psychology... which gave me all the tools I needed to grasp the main message of the show... (and that's not completely true, because Brian had no "schooling" on these subjects, but he was simply able to apply his own inner issues with the issues that Shinji faced and understood Shinji's story well enough, even if he didn't know all the finer points that surrounded these issues)

So yes... we had discussions between me (the school boy) and Brian (the guy with street smarts) and so we were able to benefit from our opposing backgrounds and views in our discussions and we both understood the most important message of the series even if we reached that conclusion by different means.

I also had the HUGE benefit of knowing my friend Taliesin, who has done more study on the Khaballa than anyone else I have ever met. He was able to point out all these very clever things in the surface story allowing me to understand some story elements that seemed quite confusing... (my own knowledge of the Khaballa was feeble... I only knew one or two things...) but Taliesin was able to explain why certain objects looked the way they did, why the Angels were drawn the way they were and what certain icons and symbols meant. His information allowed me to appretiate just how brilliant and well researched the show was.

Having all this knowledge available to me, I have built some very strong and well argued views on many aspects of the show.

It's gonna take a whole lot more than someone sayin' "This is how it is because I say so" or "I read on an anime message board that this is the case..." because those arguments hold NO WATER for me.

There is more than enough information in the show to make it clear what the messages are.

True... many of these issues are about the discussion of topics that have no ultimate answer... and because of the enigmatic nature of these issues being discussed, it gives Evangelion an enigmatic quality as well.

But let me make this very simple argument:

There are people who argued that Ritsuko never slept with Gendo.
However, anyone who watched the show knows that Ritsuko DID sleep with Gendo. She says it straight out in one of the episodes. She breaks down later on because she knows that Gendo will never love her... because he will never let go of the love he has for his wife... and since his wife is part of what makes up the Rei clones, Ritsuko knows that Gendo cares more about Rei than her.

This is fact. No amount of discussion or argument will change the fact that these WERE the events that were talked about and shown in the show.

There are just some things that are clearly explained and it's not my fault if someone else didn't see these points or understand them. They are there and that's all that need be said.

Oh...
and I don't cut and paste because I'm just a very hands on person.
Writing my arguments down gives me the chance to restructure my own thoughts.

If someone said something that I didn't know... or didn't consider, I would stop and go back and look over my own information and review the episode and discuss the point with people before I made a decision on if this new idea is valid or not

but some arguments just have no backing whatsoever.

The reason my messages often have so many typos is because I'm trying to type as fast as I think and so in my haste I make HUGE typing errors...

(and some people are dumb enough to think that because I have made a typo, that my argument suddenly has no worth... which is absurd, given the HUGE level of spelling and grammatical errors I have seen on this board)

Anyway... that's my long-winded answer to your question Klinky.

-Uncle Milo

P.S. Love your Icons!

P.P.S. - All info I have heard on new EVA material has been a hoax. I don't think there should be anymore EVA. The message is there and the story is told. Any new EVA stuff would just detract from the TV series (and I think END OF EVA is detracting from the show as well)

Gainax has not let me down so far... and I prey that we never see anything new in connection with EVA. It is a complete story and it is one of the best anime titles... and I believe it is one of the best titles anime or otherwise... that I have ever seen and I would hate to see this wonderful series besmirched by some cheap followup.

I think of when I saw Miyazaki at the premire of Spirited Away. They had a QnA after the movie and one fan asked if GHIBLI was ever going to do a sequel to any of their titles (like Kiki and Mononoke). Miyazaki gave a strong "NO." which was followed by thunderous applause.

We can hope the people of Gainax follow suit...

Lord knows PIONEER likes to whore their titles to nausium.

Projekt[Navi] · Post by **Projekt[Navi]** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:49 am

Hideaki Anno should realize that Evangelion is as good as it ended by the movie .. and I cannot see that a second season of the anime will actually do good in the anime .. what will the new season show of Eva ... more angels and more cospiracies. I think we've seen enough of Lain to piece together whats up ... but another season of Eva? Its like adding another season to Dragonball Z. O wait ... that did happen ...

o-0

RadicalEd0 · Post by **RadicalEd0** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:25 pm

this is what i deserve for reading online documentaries before watching the series

everything I've ever heard told that the difference between the movie and the tv ending was that in the movie ending shinji says instrumentality is running away and throws it to the dogs whereas in the tv he realizes that he can exist and be himself in his own world
which is, quite arguably, what seems to happen on the surface. however if you're saying that the truth is he rejects it and accepts that he can live in the real world then I'd be glad to re-view and take a look at the facts from that perspective. Is that really the case? and if so, why didnt anyone pick up on that.

Oh yeah, I'm a little confused too, I mentioned about adam's 3 wifes to a friend of mine who has read a lot on the kabbalah and is all about occultism and metaphysics and she barked back at me that I had no clue what I was talking about, adam never had 3 wives etc
scandalous

RadicalEd0 · Post by **RadicalEd0** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:26 pm

please take note of course that I have seen the series a few times, I was pointing out in the beginning that before I saw the last few episodes I had read up on the symbolism and meanings etc

klinky · Post by **klinky** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 8:38 pm

Okay,

I don't get it :O

Sure it took like a month to really sink in. Well actually, I was more crying and upset all over misato in End of Evangelion. I've only seen the series ONCE. I've seen the movie you could say technicall three TIMES, but!!! The first two were just were I skimmed through it. I could never get past the Misato part.

KThulhu and I watched it together the whole thing throough. Anyways... Yeah... In the series, the peeps congratulate him for coming back. Though it's kind of confusing what with everyone no being dead and all.

Then in EoE, Yui states that people can come back if they so choose to. I think shinji remarks, that it will be hard, but we would like to come back, maybe that was in the series. Either way. I know he chose real life and came back. I didn't analyze the series a whole, lot, EXCEPT FOR LOOPHOLES THAT WOULD ALLOW MISATO TO COME BACK TO LIFE!!

Which, when you view the movie, you will see Misato's jacket, tattered, but with a pool of LCL, she was blown in two during the movie which sucks major ass. That must have been painful, but Rei does show up before hand, so I think she was spared alot of it. Also those last words by Yui that "everyone may come back if they want to". I am not sure if she means everyone alive on that day, or everyone ever alive ? I think everyone ever alive on that day, since we would have horrible overcrowding any other way :p

~klinky

RadicalEd0 · Post by **RadicalEd0** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 11:37 pm

she was referring to all people who went through instrumentality and got to do the rei-pop into lcl thing (yay fun) but that somehow managed to include all the soldiers who died as well as misato and ritsuko for a reason that uncle milo is going to explain right here:

Aetherfukz · Post by **Aetherfukz** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:04 pm

I, too, think that Misato could come back to live again. Just because there war Rei standing there, when the explosion hit here. Hell, it was so fast, maybe Rei put here into LCL before the blast teared her apart. Hope so ^_^

Peace out,
~Aetherfukz