the trigun dub is horribly wrong

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 1:35 pm

yes. but how far is CN right now? because I've seen the entire dub of trigun and have no problem with the job the voice actors did. In fact, when I first heard Vash in ep one I was shocked at how well the US dubber was able to do the goofy screams and yelling. And as for Wollfwood, you'll notice that in the anime they went out of their way to make the two be as similar as possible (personaltiy wise) and if I had to give a ratio between serious and goofy, I'd say it's 70/30 for vash and 60/40 for wolfwood so if one needs to get the ax, it's the serious voice actor.

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 1:52 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:yes. but how far is CN right now? because I've seen the entire dub of trigun and have no problem with the job the voice actors did. In fact, when I first heard Vash in ep one I was shocked at how well the US dubber was able to do the goofy screams and yelling. And as for Wollfwood, you'll notice that in the anime they went out of their way to make the two be as similar as possible (personaltiy wise) and if I had to give a ratio between serious and goofy, I'd say it's 70/30 for vash and 60/40 for wolfwood so if one needs to get the ax, it's the serious voice actor.

No, I see your point, but mine is that they are still to a degree wrong (however little it may be). I feel that the English VAs (as good as they are at being goofy...well to you..not for me), they still aren't perfect to the originally intended voices.

It's actually impossible for any dub to perfectly convey the japanese voice's emotion and tone. The Japanese language obviously sounds different and well...people sound different. I know these are obvious things, but there is no such thing as a perfect dub.

Dubs by definition are inherently flawed from their original. Now if people like that...that's fine. They just need to realize that I guess.

Either way, I guess from that perspective...they're more right than wrong if that's what you're getting at.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 9:30 pm

dwchang wrote:
As for the cave allegory doesn't that have to do with us being chained in the cave and only seeing the shadows as opposed to the whole picture. I thought the allegory was about how we think we know what we are seeing (the shadows), but in reality we are only seeing a silhouette (sp) of the truth (the things causing the shadows). I thought the whole allegory was about how easily manipulated we are and how we don't see the whole truth...ever...(shrug). It's a bit blurry since I studied that like 9 years ago when I was a Freshman in High School :gasp:

yea it was a bit out of context the way i used it ... you hit the nail on the head with yoru description. But still i thought it was funny, if you take the story literaly every one is still tied to the wall looking at shadows while your explaining what you saw outside ... and they're the ones threatening to kill you ... i thoguht it was kind of funny, but yoru not supposed to take the story literaly ...

hmm freshman ... what is that ... your second or first year of highschool? i don't know because in Canada we don't say freshman or any thing like that , we jsut say grade 9, 10, 10 12, and OAC (which is being removed from our system).

SSJVegita0609 · Post by **SSJVegita0609** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:27 pm

el_farlo wrote:
SSJVegita0609 wrote:There, I said it *ducks
it was a joke

Joke THIS!!!

/me hurls kitchen sink

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:46 pm

Propyro wrote:
dwchang wrote:
As for the cave allegory doesn't that have to do with us being chained in the cave and only seeing the shadows as opposed to the whole picture. I thought the allegory was about how we think we know what we are seeing (the shadows), but in reality we are only seeing a silhouette (sp) of the truth (the things causing the shadows). I thought the whole allegory was about how easily manipulated we are and how we don't see the whole truth...ever...(shrug). It's a bit blurry since I studied that like 9 years ago when I was a Freshman in High School :gasp:

yea it was a bit out of context the way i used it ... you hit the nail on the head with yoru description. But still i thought it was funny, if you take the story literaly every one is still tied to the wall looking at shadows while your explaining what you saw outside ... and they're the ones threatening to kill you ... i thoguht it was kind of funny, but yoru not supposed to take the story literaly ...

hmm freshman ... what is that ... your second or first year of highschool? i don't know because in Canada we don't say freshman or any thing like that , we jsut say grade 9, 10, 10 12, and OAC (which is being removed from our system).

Yeah freshman year is grade 9. I actually liked that English class quite a bit since it opened my eyes to the "world" and made me a huge pessimist

. Read Animal Farm by George Orwell, Lord of the Flies by William Golding, The works of Plato (or was it Socrates), Frankenstein by Mary Shelling and so on. As you can see most of these deal with us either being evil or not knowing the truth. Either way I loved it since I don't seethe world as naively as I used to (I hope).

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:27 am

dwchang wrote: It's actually impossible for any dub to perfectly convey the japanese voice's emotion and tone. The Japanese language obviously sounds different and well...people sound different. I know these are obvious things, but there is no such thing as a perfect dub.

Dubs by definition are inherently flawed from their original. Now if people like that...that's fine. They just need to realize that I guess.

Generaly the japanese diolouge is better but Dub's can vary in quality from anime to anime. And there are times when the english dubs surpass the original japanese voices.

rurouni_trelane · Post by **rurouni_trelane** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:30 am

dwchang wrote: For the record, it's not really the fact that people like dubs that pisses me off. They have every right to prefer one over the other. The thing that pisses me off is when they try and defend it with statements like "better than the original," "sounds more like what the creator wanted," "sounds more like the character should," etc.

Personally, I agree with you on the last two statements. Those are pretty dumb... considering the original context of the show. But sometimes the dub IS better than the sub, and I don't mean like "OMGWTFBBQ GOKU IS SOOO MUCH BETTR IN ENGLSH!!!!!111" I mean, sometimes the sub is just not well voiced or scripted, period, and when it falls into the dubber's hands, the quality improves. A perfect example of this is GoldenBoy. The japanese voice of Kentaro doesn't get anywhere near as expressive as the english voice does; it's much more entertaining to hear Doug Smith begging women to make him their slave than it is to hear it from whoever did the japanese voice (especially when you consider that in real life, Doug Smith is completely the opposite and is a very shy and reserved person).

dwchang · Post by **dwchang** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:43 am

CaTaClYsM wrote:Generaly the japanese diolouge is better but Dub's can vary in quality from anime to anime. And there are times when the english dubs surpass the original japanese voices.

I don't agree that dubs are better, but I Do agree with the main point you are making. I think a dub CAN sound better to a person than the sub and they have every right to enjoy it more. I am just talking about the "purist" philosophy and original intents and whatnot. Please don't misinterpret me as MAKING people like subs or something.

rurouni_trelane wrote:Personally, I agree with you on the last two statements. Those are pretty dumb... considering the original context of the show. But sometimes the dub IS better than the sub, and I don't mean like "OMGWTFBBQ GOKU IS SOOO MUCH BETTR IN ENGLSH!!!!!111" I mean, sometimes the sub is just not well voiced or scripted, period, and when it falls into the dubber's hands, the quality improves. A perfect example of this is GoldenBoy. The japanese voice of Kentaro doesn't get anywhere near as expressive as the english voice does; it's much more entertaining to hear Doug Smith begging women to make him their slave than it is to hear it from whoever did the japanese voice (especially when you consider that in real life, Doug Smith is completely the opposite and is a very shy and reserved person).

Well again, I have no problems with someone liking one version compared to another. Obviously you think this is better by this person, but at the same time I'm glad you see the whole "original context" and whatnot. For me (with ANYTHING not just anime...like say german movies, french, etc.), I like seeing (and in this case hearing) things the way the creator/director intended it too. The reality of it is that we're trying to be entertained or see what they are trying to say or tell. I like seeing it as uninterrupted and pure as possible. I'm glad you see that and by no means do I want to say that you MUST watch it this way, but just saying that there is a "correct" way from the perspective of the creator. I will admit that to SOME, one CAN sound better than the original.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:12 am

When I say that the dub's can be better, my two examples are Hellsing and VHD Bloodlust. Hellsig takes place in england and is MUCH easier to watch when the people of the coutry can speak their native language. And to top it off, the voice actors all did great jobs for their characters. Bloodlust, was made for the english dubbing so on top of great voice actors, the lip movements matched up perfectly. I think the curcumstances are rare for me to actually like a dub more than the original, but in these cases there are no doubts.

Propyro · Post by **Propyro** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:37 am

Severly off topic with the trigun dub issue ... (like most of what i've posted)

[quote="dwchang
Yeah freshman year is grade 9. I actually liked that English class quite a bit since it opened my eyes to the "world" and made me a huge pessimist

. Read Animal Farm by George Orwell, Lord of the Flies by William Golding, The works of Plato (or was it Socrates), Frankenstein by Mary Shelling and so on. As you can see most of these deal with us either being evil or not knowing the truth. Either way I loved it since I don't seethe world as naively as I used to (I hope).[/quote]

yea, i've read most of that stuff, Animal farm was in my grade 11 law class and LoTF was in grade 11 english, so was 1984 ... one of the better books i've read. As for the oworks of plato ... plato dictated for socrates ... so most of socrates' later writings are generaly regarded to be plato's thoughts with socrates' name on them, or plato elaborating on socrates' words using socrates' name.

Grade 9 english for me was nothing short of a hell hole ... we did fuck all and i got stuck with a teacher that wound up looking down on me, up to this dayi think she still regards me as a retard. The best book we read was "A Cue for Treason", actualy that was the only book we did as a class ...

But i'm surprised you guys did plato & socrates in grade 9 english since i had just learned about them in my grade 12 philosophy class (grade 12 university level religion) last semister ... god was that ever a hard class ...