Dubs - actually bad, or just unfairly biased against?

[older_gohan]

It's great how my psot was ignored. One person agreed with me. I said everything emilang said >_>

[Brigid]

4Kids aside, because no one's saying that they're good at all, Anime and cartoons as a whole are becoming much more mature in America. The only thing they won't allow are characters saying "Shit," "Fuck," or any of the other four-letter words they can't even say on South Park (damn and Hell are perfectly fine); but when you get right down to it, explicit language isn't needed.

4Kids stinks to high heaven. It makes any animation look bad, no matter what side of the Pacific it originated from.

I agree that explicit language isn't needed. All that must be done is get the meaning and tone across. While some fans go nuts when they replace damn with dang and such I really don't care. In fact, I rather prefer dang to damn.

What does bug me is when they edit out all the blood. It usually ends up with whoever being beat up falling over after one punch. Then you see the unedited version and you realize, oh, he got a real beating, so he isn't a wuss.

But that sort of thing could happen in we got subtitled anime on TV, so it isn't dub-specific necessarily.

[milkmandan]

i guess in a way, your preference on dub or sub might depend on your ethicity...

as an asian american..there are very many customary things that are common knowledge that appear in MANY anime.

if a dub came along and changed it, its pretty obviously where the space is...its just purely flat out different. a dub can be good as far as emotion, but if it were just down to understand jokes or other things, a sub does a direct translation..which leaves the watcher to apply his background to the anime..

its almost like the japanese/chinese myth, if you sneeze and you aren't sick, it means someone is talking about you...

or even riddles in japanese, can't be translated over in english it would just sound weird and not really fit in with the whole anime...

i posted about this previously.

it really is your background or how you wanna enjoy anime...i'd rather see direct translations and leave me and my background to figure out the meaning, then have someone else TRY to interpret FOR me.

and looking at subs at the bottom of the screeen shouldn't matter. if you are fluent in reading english, reading subs shouldn't take more than half of a second.

[Malificus]

and looking at subs at the bottom of the screeen shouldn't matter. if you are fluent in reading english, reading subs shouldn't take more than half of a second.

That may not always be true. Whie I barely need to look at the subs to read them, some people are slower readers and can miss somethiong important while they read.

[Bloodseeker]

I think that I understand... its probably for the same reason that I hated the Yu Yu Hakusho movie dub. They got used to the original Japanese track first, so it sounded wierd to hear different voices on the characters.

[Brigid]

and looking at subs at the bottom of the screeen shouldn't matter. if you are fluent in reading english, reading subs shouldn't take more than half of a second.

That's exactly the problem. It takes less time to read than it does to talk (at least for most people) and therefore the pacing is messed up. (And it can be really hard to figure out who's saying what.)

And, like Malificus said, some people are slow readers.

[lenu]

and looking at subs at the bottom of the screeen shouldn't matter. if you are fluent in reading english, reading subs shouldn't take more than half of a second.

That's exactly the problem. It takes less time to read than it does to talk (at least for most people) and therefore the pacing is messed up. (And it can be really hard to figure out who's saying what.)

And, like Malificus said, some people are slow readers.

And then there are some who just don't feel like reading text when they'd rather be watching the anime itself. Now, I watch both dub and sub, but there are times when I don't feel like reading, I'd rather be listening.

[BasharOfTheAges]

Reading subs has become almost second nature to me by now. It's the best I can do until I make a more direct effort to learn Japanese. It does depend on the person some people are more visual learners, some are more auditory learners, some are both, and some, sadly, are neither (or just plain too lazy to use the space between their ears unless they'tr being forced to). A good friend of mine has actually learned a bunch of Japanese both from watching Anime and listening to language lesson CDs. It's really about how much effort you're willing to put forth and how much inate ability you have to do complex tasks like reading while watching something... or chewing gum and walking.

[W i l l o w]

For the longest time I've been introduced to the internet, I've noticed constantly that when I'm looking for a particular ANIME/SUBJECT (Gundam Wing, Dragon Ball Z and CARDCAPTORS are prime examples) that there are a billion FOURMS discussing various subjects and out of the blue comes this Fourm "THE ENGLISH DUB FOR GW/BDZ/CS SUCKS!" --- then "WHY CS/DBZ SUXS (for various reasons)!" consisting of their opinion that is usually accompanied with "WTF???!!!!" In other words, full out hatred toward an Anime that's been dubed or edited. Its even more abudant in reviews I see on online stores that let you review Anime.


In all honestly, I can't see why (besides the examples EmilLang(?) showed) people despise English Dubs in Anime. Its like they believe that being a PURIST is the one and only relgion or something (most of them, not ALL OF THEM, anyways) and a ENGLISH DUB is a sin that's been comited upon a Japanese Cartoon. When I say that an Anime's English dub was great, the talent from the voice actors was amazing, I'll get a spiteful comment riddled with bad grammar and profane words along with it (But I've never posted it here) aimed right at me. But in all honestly, I favor both Japanese and English (as many people have said before me. Nice to see people who like Dubs crawl out of the darkness that the Sub lovers have created), and as I said before in a previous FOURM TOPIC I've posted (tich* everyone just seems to hate me, my word ), If the Enlgish Dub is excellent then I'll listen to it, but otherwise I'd be listening to Japanese Sub. But a majority of the Anime I watch, I listen to the English Audio (less strain on my ears and eyes reading subtitles) because that's how I was introduced to the show on TV.



Despite what everyone has been saying, Canada's OCEAN GROUP did a darn well good job in the voice-acting department for DBZ's first three seasons/sagas. While in some other series they can mess up, the OCEAN GROUP does not disappoint in the areas of talent when they've got a good director and script (and maybe even money).




Scott McNeil (Duo Maxwell [Gundam Wing], Rattrap [Beast wars/machines]-) was a great Piccolo and far better than Christopher Sabat who isn't bad, but he doesn't have that "Antihero" quirk about him when he's voice acting for Piccolo. Ian Corlett (Cheetor from "Beast Wars/machines") is not a bad Son Goku, although I won't bite my tongue when I say Sean Schemmel is better in characterizing Son Goku in ways. Lalainia Lindbjerg (Bluma), Ted Cole (Yamcha), Lisa Ann Beley (Chi-Chi), Matthew Smith (Tien; only because I loved the line he said: "Swine, barbaric swine," or something in that order), Terry Klassen (Krillin), Saffron Henderson (Gohan), Peter Kelamis (Son Goku's 2nd VA), Brian Drummond (Vegeta/Yajirobe), Pauline Newstone (Freiza), and Cathy Weseluck (Chiaotzu), weren't bad in the voice acting department for their characters either. Sure at times, it may seem a bit off and clunky, like their constant need to express verbally their surprise/shock "Ahhh!-/Ohhh!", but other than that, it was not a bad Dub (Freiza sounded alot more male too). Which is probably why I have a hard time watching the UNCUT version of the first 3 seasons of DBZ; I've grown accustomed to listening to OCEAN GROUP's voice atcting and didn't mind ---aferward--- that FUNImation took over after the episode in which Goku beat Reccome(?) upon his arrival to Namek (9-19TH-99' on Toonami - DBZ day). I figured that TV stations had edited DBZ, so when it was announced that it was UNCUT, I would be listening to the same voices as before. But Alas! It was not so. I was a bit miffed about it for a while. I still can't watch it.



FUNImation's voice acting isn't bad, either. In most parts, its almost better than OCEAN GROUP's voice acting (Sabat is better with Vegeta's "power up!" scream than Drummond --who was dead on with Vegeta's rage moments without the screaming--- was.) but its only downfall is that a majority of the characters (I.E., background characters, or muscle bound badguys etc.) are just a tad bit overboard with the cartoonish voice characteration. I WOULD listen to the Japanese Sub for DBZ, but a majority of the characters sound just a tad to femalish for me. Espcially Goku, Gohan, and Goten, all voiced by the same woman. It really takes away the coolest thing about Goku (and its not him being a man either). And DBZ was never the "bad dub" flagship for dubbing Anime, that's like saying, Michael Keaton and Christain Bale were a sucky Batmans (take a look at the two previous ones, you'll be biting your tongue). There were many other bad dubs (DBZ not being one of them) before it. How many people watch "BIG-O" - "INU-YASHA" - "GUNDAM WING/ENDLESS WALTZ" - "WOLF'S RAIN" - "ROD/ROD THE TV", etc., with the English audio?


If anything, I don't think people give Dubs half a chance to prove themselves beyond their first impressions. English Dubbing on a Japanese cartoon (or any other foriegn cartoon/movie, etc) is like watching the first season of MacGyver, Buffy the vampire slayer, Xena: Warrior Princess, and Angel (among many other GOOD live action TV series of the past). At first they're like babies first learning how to walk. Learning how to stand up without help --which in all honestly, should be easy for an adventureous tyke---, how to keep their footing and most of all how to stay off their bottoms. Once that's learned, its no longer a problem. You've got it down, you're the master of a new ability. If you see what I'm saying, it should be easy to comprehend. At first Good Dubs aren't great, but give it time and it'll get better with time and experince, as well as a feel for the character.



I do have alot more to say, but It has currently escaped me and I can't remember it at all. ---- W i l l o w* (Dark Knight of Tomorrow).

[Jnzk]

In the DVD era I don't really see the point of sub vs. dub debates.