Whats with you DBZ haters!? heres reasons why its good...

[Farlo]

A: the heroes don't really do anything. We all know Goku will save the day. Nothing exciting.

B: to defeat an enemy, they just scream and electricy flows (From the first saga to the last)

C: There enemys keep getting stronger and stronger. I mean yeah you have to expect that, but once your enemy is strong enough to destroy a planet, what's the point?

D: There stories are just repeats of themselves. Villian shows up, stall until they train, train, train, train. Oopps, all the training was for nothing, we need Goku again.

E: There is no plot besides the fighting. No drama, no romance, no worries about death because they come back no matter what.

F: If Goku has a tail, and chi chi has kids with him, isn't that kinda like beastiality?

G: Why do they fight for 3 weeks worth of eps Ex: The end of namek "The planet will explode in 5 minutes" but they fight for 10 episodes, then goku SOMEHOW has neough time to fly halfway across the plaent, get into a spaceship and float away. Oh yeah, real good.

H: Bulma changes hairstyles to much.

this is the best summary of that i have ever seen...good job

[MrScribble]

I just want to say your mother is a whore for no appearant reason at all...

[nrjize]

I will sum it up for you ignorant bastards 8) using quotes from these guys:

A: three villians in series, first is frieza, goku saves the day, second is cell gohan saves the day, third is buu, the ppl of earth save the day, goku helped once, wow, a whole one major time

Frieza: Defeated by Goku, Cell: Defeated by both Gohan AND Goku, a one handed kamehameha wouldn't do it Buu: Goku borrowed the energy, formed it, made a ball and dropped it, and it was the universe, not just earth.

B: screaming gets the blood flowing, don't u ever scream or shout if ur in a fight, i doubt u just fight silently unless ur a martial arts expert fighting a novice, and they use energy, kinda like fire, fire hurts, ppl die

I find DBZ to be of some interest. Not as much as a lot of other anime, but still, it's pretty decent. Yes, i do like some of the fighting, but my main fascination is with the character depth and development. Yes, there is character depth and development.
Not so much with Goku or some of the other characters, but there is a lot with Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, and Trunks. Most of the other characters went through their developments in DB.

Gohan, a young boy with a hidden power that could (and does) one day surpass all the others. He lacks confidence in himself and suffers from a low self-esteem initially, but when his friends suffer, he's able to push beyond his shortcommings to do something miraculous.

Piccolo, a swarn enemy of Goku finds himself with no other choice but to take Goku's son for a year to train him. Spending this time with him, he gains a love (plutonic mind you) for Gohan, something he's never had for anyone. The power of this love changes him, slowly but surely, and eventually he even views Goku as a great friend.

Trunks grew up in a devestated world, with out his father and with little hope for the future. He even loses hi only mentor, Gohan. After traveling to the past, with grewat hopes of meeting his father, he finds his dad a stubborn man who refuses to accept him. He spends years trying to gain his father's approval, only to be rejected at every turn. Eventually, his persistance pays off and his father accepts him, but at the cost of his own life (I admit death is cheap in DBZ).

Vegeta, a proud prince raised to believe that he holds the key to an insurmountable strength, is beaten by a lowly 3rd rate warrior. He spends the next several years of his life trying to regain the pride Goku stole from him. A constant conflict between god and evil rages in his heart. On the one hand, he has his family and his new life on earth. On the other, he has his wounded pride, constantly being outdone, at first by Goku, but then even by Goku's son. Eventually he gains the power to defeat Goku 9so he thinks) and this conflict within him reaches a climax. He must choose between his pride and his family. Destroy Goku and become the most powerful Saiyan once again, or fight Boo and protect both Goku and his own family. He makes the right decesion and selflessly gives his life for the safety of Earth (yes, life is cheap, but I doubt he thought anyone would wish him back).

Anyway, that's why I think DBZ is a fairly good anime.
Sorry for the length.

[Farlo]

ok calling us ignorant will get you no-where...this is just a preference..trying to force someone to like a series that they think is garbage is useless.

now heres the reasons in which i dislike that series
1: crude animation
2: dull plot
3: redundancy
4: minimal story
5: too much emphasis on one fight(ive never seen an anime take so frustratingly long for a SINGLE fight)

[nrjize]

There arent really that many bad guys... the battles just last a while and have more meaning (save the world/universe) earth becomes this battlefield. When Goku fights frieza he starts out on equal terms and Frieza transforms to gain power, Goku is finally able to make his transformation after frieza kills a friend of his. When fighting the androids Vegeta comes to help while Goku suffers from a virus, noone really ends up beating the androids exept cell who consumes them for more power, gohans awakened power and rage over the death of android 18 which loved animals and nature allow him to defeat cell. When fighting Buu pretty much everyone dies, and an old Kai gives goku his life so that he can make a spirit bomb using the energy from everyone on earth to destroy him. Frieza wanted control over the universe, Androids were created to kill Goku whom this Scientist despised, Cell wanted power, and to determine that he was the most powerfull by threatening to destroy the world if they didnt beat him, Buu was a creation of pure evil meant to destroy

This is a basic outline of my own, I dont see how each battle (although similar) can be called the "same" And each had its own plot, surprises, humor.

[Arigatomina]

It's funny, but I have to say I agree with every one of the complaints listed on the last page of this thread (no, I haven't scanned through it all yet). Each thing pointed out is something that's irked me about dbz from the very beginning. And yet each one of the good points is also something I agree with - and they're all points that I like about dbz. So where does that leave me? The anime has its bad points YES and it has its good points YES - the question is whether the good points appeal enough to you for you to like the anime as a whole (good & bad). For me it does. For others it doesn't. Every anime I watch has as many bad points as good, it's just that more people know of dbz, so there's more debate over it. ^_^

As for plot redundancy - I'll wait a while before jumping into that debate. And it was android 16 whose death spurred Gohan on, 18 was the girl. ^_~

[nrjize]

The main reason for all of this is to convince those people who havent really watched DBZ (maybe a few episodes) or those that just like picking things to critisize that DBZ is worth more than you think. Of course you can have your own opinions, this is just to make you think about your opinions on it.

[Arigatomina]

The one thing that annoys me most is when people have their one special move that they use every time, Salor Moon does it, Slayers does it, so does Yuyu hakashu... and many other animes. Also, often times they have to shout something out in order to do their Special (predictable) move like: "Dragonslave" or "shotgun", DBZ doesnt do this crap ( one exception "kameihameiha" )

Heh, I just had to do a quick quibble with this one. Since you *do* admit the Kame hame ha is dbz's redundant move, I'll put forth that the Reigan is yyh's redundant move. Aside from that, each character has as many different tactics as any dbz character, if not more. Kurama can do any number of attacks using his plants - much more variety than even the dbz characters multiple ki attacks. And Hiei can fight with anything - sword, youki, flame, fists - he's the epitome of versatility in battle. Comparing dbz with yyh isn't a good thing to do if you're arguing against redundancy in attacks. ^_^

As for the reason for the debate (to jump back to present ^_^; ) - I understand completely. But even if you explain the good points of the series, if the bad points are what others focus on you aren't going to change their minds. I think El_Farlo's right about that, once someone's decided they hate anything with a battle that lasts more than 6 episodes (and we all know dbz is the biggest for that sort of thing, though others have done nearly as bad - YYH Yusuke vs. Toguro comes to mind) - something like drawn-out battles can be enough to make someone hate an anime to the point where anything good about it isn't good enough for them. So there's no real point in arguing with them - they won't change their minds. Now, you can still try to persuade those in the middle who haven't made a decision yet. I was in the middle of hating dbz because of the battles until Trunks was introduced and I payed attention and realize there *was* character depth. So some can be persuaded, others are best left with their preferences.

[nrjize]

Well, I was thinking mostly about Yusuke as far as having like one main move which they use in every battle, his spirit gun.. though the best example for this kind of thing is Sailor Moon, I know whenever they did their special move it would show the same animation every time... not that I watched sailor moon... anyhow, I know I also said some hipocritical things earlier but ohh well, I wasnt putting my ideas into any sort of format, just letting them flow

[Arigatomina]

Well, I was thinking mostly about Yusuke as far as having like one main move which they use in every battle, his spirit gun.. though the best example for this kind of thing is Sailor Moon, I know whenever they did their special move it would show the same animation every time... not that I watched sailor moon... anyhow, I know I also said some hipocritical things earlier but ohh well, I wasnt putting my ideas into any sort of format, just letting them flow

There's nothing wrong with being hypocritical as long as you fess up to it. ^_^ As for dbz vs yyh - they have a lot in common, you know. Yusuke really reminds me of Goku since they're both glory-hounds, always getting in the final shot (even if Goku is just a spirit holding Gohan's hand, or the carrier of a giant spirit bomb - it's still him). They can't have even one YYH movie without Yusuke getting in the final attack. That's something I hate about both animes. ^_^; But versatility in attack is another matter - dbz *does* have a versatile character in Trunks. Sure, after a while it gets to the point where 'sword breaks, fists, random ki attacks, crash, out cold, loser' happens, but that's only so Goku can have his moment of glory. He's still versatile - reminds me of Hiei a bit, except yyh lets its minor characters defeat minor enemies a lot more often than dbz does.

Sailor moon is irritating with its final attacks. Yes, they change the little dance scene at least once for each season (I *did* watch SM, and I admit it ^_~ ), but it's still her, just like Goku, still the same old thing. It's really common in anime. Find me a series that I've seen and I can find just as many problems as I can good points - and as long as you'll concede the problems, you have a better shot at promoting the good points. That's all I was pushing. ^_^ See the good with the bad, admit to the opposition's main points, and then counter then. It's the best way to win a debate. 8)