I just realized something sad. [about fansubs]
- Garylisk
- Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 2:03 am
- Status: Littlecolt
- Location: USA
- Contact:
I just realized something sad. [about fansubs]
WARNING: RANT AHEAD!
OK, the other day, I was hanging out with my friend X (I will call him X in this post to keep his real identity secret). Before I go on, let me just explain that X is one of those guys who downloads anime, and lots of it. Liscensed or not, he DL's it. He rationalizes his illegalities due to the fact that he's spent so much on anime int he past, and still spends a lot on anime now, that he can't afford to get all he wants. (I think it's kind of a dumb way of rationalizing things, but oh well. Whatever works for ya...)
In any case, I don't remember what series he was talking about, but the phrase "Oh man, that's gonna be liscensed soon.. That sucks cuz the fansubbers won't even have a chance to finish subbing it!"
I didn't think much of what he had said at the time, but I was just pondering the phrase now, and you know, it's SAD!!
Why is it sad, you ask... Isn't it obvious?
Since when has it EVER sucked that something is getting liscensed? That means it's gonna be out in the USA! In English! You'll be able to get your very own copy! Legit!
Lemme go back a step. Fansubs. You know, back in "the day", we weren't spoiled by high speed internet, high compression digital video and audio, and we sure as hell didn't have computers that could do that kind of shit in the first place. we had fansub tapes. We'd buy them from guys that had lists of them on their websites. On local BBS's. In local anime clubs. Why? We wanted to see some anime, that much hasn't changed!
But why would the fansubbers go through the trouble of subbing the work in the first place? Back then, it was usually one of two reasons.
1) There was no chance in hell it was gonna get liscensed from what we could figure.
2) We wanted anime companies to see that it could be popular here and that they could make some money off it, thus they would liscense it.
What does liscensing do for us? It gets us more anime in the USA. It gets us legit copies. It gets us a little popularity boost to the art form we love.
That's how it was anyway. Fastforward to today. Why do fansubbers go through the trouble of subbing?
1) To be the first guys who sub it, and thus get "rights".
2) To be cool and stuff.
3) To share new anime with fans.
4) To pirate the anime so people don't have to pay for it when it does come out.
5) TO get it translated the way THEY WANT because obviously nobody can lick their trans.
ther list goes on an on... But where in there do you see any sort of promotion for the shows themselves?
In this day and age where we can mass-produce fansubs and pass them around to millions of people in a matter of hours, who is this helping? What purpose does it server other than just another form of movie piracy once the title gets liscensed? Distro doesn't stop. That fansubbers often wipe their hands of it. Some of them wil finish liscensed shows in secret and get them out on the "underground" and shit. Lots of subbers will not even abide by the rules that were set up so long ago.. THat anime fan code of honor. It's dying. I think it's largely due to the fact that younger and younger peopel are getting into fansubs and downloading anime. No offense to those youngsters out there who do abide by the code... but I really think that a lot of immaturity is going on, and it's one of the root problems.
-----
OK back to my friend X. He's 22 yesrs old. Obviously not really a "youngster"... but certainly not abiding by any sort of code of honor. SO maybe age has nothing to do with it either. Maybe I'm just rambling at this point. I don't care. The fact remains... being sad that something is getting liscensed because now a fansubber won't be finishing it is STUPID AND SAD!
Aren't you happy that anime is getting as popular as it is? Aren't you grateful for the drones of fans who've made it come this far? Aren't you the least bit thankful tot he companies who bring this stuff over and push it and push it and push it to the point where now anime on video is a half a million dollar a year industry? Aren't you the least bit appreciative of the people in Japan who make this stuff? Show a little respect, you slackers!
I don't care if your pockets are empty, with holes, and moths in them! That's no excuse to pirate someone else's work! It's not an excuse to steal something that someone else paid to give to you! It's no excuse to whine about how much you want something and you just can't get it so you download it instead! That's BS! If it's available here in the USA, *FUCKING BUY IT OR QUIT BITCHING!* Can't afford it? Get a job! Too young to get a job? Beg mommy! Mommy won't get it for you? Cry into your pillow! THen after you're done with that, you'll probably download it anyway. ANd then of course, the next step is to take a video camera into a movie theater and video tape the film, digitize it, and pass it to all your buddies. Then of course, you'll wanna party, so go to the store and shoplift a bunch of snacks and shit in your pants! Then go take the money out of the cash register!
ANARCHY! ANARCHY! ANARCHY!
A little extreme?
Theft is theft.
Fansubs are a happy gray area. Leave them at that. When it stops being happy and gray is when you need to stop walking around in that area.
And now, my little sheep, I just wanna remind you that this rant has been all my own opinion and shouldn't have anything to do with your own, as if I could effect the way you think anyway.
FEEL MY ANGSTY ANGER!!
OK, the other day, I was hanging out with my friend X (I will call him X in this post to keep his real identity secret). Before I go on, let me just explain that X is one of those guys who downloads anime, and lots of it. Liscensed or not, he DL's it. He rationalizes his illegalities due to the fact that he's spent so much on anime int he past, and still spends a lot on anime now, that he can't afford to get all he wants. (I think it's kind of a dumb way of rationalizing things, but oh well. Whatever works for ya...)
In any case, I don't remember what series he was talking about, but the phrase "Oh man, that's gonna be liscensed soon.. That sucks cuz the fansubbers won't even have a chance to finish subbing it!"
I didn't think much of what he had said at the time, but I was just pondering the phrase now, and you know, it's SAD!!
Why is it sad, you ask... Isn't it obvious?
Since when has it EVER sucked that something is getting liscensed? That means it's gonna be out in the USA! In English! You'll be able to get your very own copy! Legit!
Lemme go back a step. Fansubs. You know, back in "the day", we weren't spoiled by high speed internet, high compression digital video and audio, and we sure as hell didn't have computers that could do that kind of shit in the first place. we had fansub tapes. We'd buy them from guys that had lists of them on their websites. On local BBS's. In local anime clubs. Why? We wanted to see some anime, that much hasn't changed!
But why would the fansubbers go through the trouble of subbing the work in the first place? Back then, it was usually one of two reasons.
1) There was no chance in hell it was gonna get liscensed from what we could figure.
2) We wanted anime companies to see that it could be popular here and that they could make some money off it, thus they would liscense it.
What does liscensing do for us? It gets us more anime in the USA. It gets us legit copies. It gets us a little popularity boost to the art form we love.
That's how it was anyway. Fastforward to today. Why do fansubbers go through the trouble of subbing?
1) To be the first guys who sub it, and thus get "rights".
2) To be cool and stuff.
3) To share new anime with fans.
4) To pirate the anime so people don't have to pay for it when it does come out.
5) TO get it translated the way THEY WANT because obviously nobody can lick their trans.
ther list goes on an on... But where in there do you see any sort of promotion for the shows themselves?
In this day and age where we can mass-produce fansubs and pass them around to millions of people in a matter of hours, who is this helping? What purpose does it server other than just another form of movie piracy once the title gets liscensed? Distro doesn't stop. That fansubbers often wipe their hands of it. Some of them wil finish liscensed shows in secret and get them out on the "underground" and shit. Lots of subbers will not even abide by the rules that were set up so long ago.. THat anime fan code of honor. It's dying. I think it's largely due to the fact that younger and younger peopel are getting into fansubs and downloading anime. No offense to those youngsters out there who do abide by the code... but I really think that a lot of immaturity is going on, and it's one of the root problems.
-----
OK back to my friend X. He's 22 yesrs old. Obviously not really a "youngster"... but certainly not abiding by any sort of code of honor. SO maybe age has nothing to do with it either. Maybe I'm just rambling at this point. I don't care. The fact remains... being sad that something is getting liscensed because now a fansubber won't be finishing it is STUPID AND SAD!
Aren't you happy that anime is getting as popular as it is? Aren't you grateful for the drones of fans who've made it come this far? Aren't you the least bit thankful tot he companies who bring this stuff over and push it and push it and push it to the point where now anime on video is a half a million dollar a year industry? Aren't you the least bit appreciative of the people in Japan who make this stuff? Show a little respect, you slackers!
I don't care if your pockets are empty, with holes, and moths in them! That's no excuse to pirate someone else's work! It's not an excuse to steal something that someone else paid to give to you! It's no excuse to whine about how much you want something and you just can't get it so you download it instead! That's BS! If it's available here in the USA, *FUCKING BUY IT OR QUIT BITCHING!* Can't afford it? Get a job! Too young to get a job? Beg mommy! Mommy won't get it for you? Cry into your pillow! THen after you're done with that, you'll probably download it anyway. ANd then of course, the next step is to take a video camera into a movie theater and video tape the film, digitize it, and pass it to all your buddies. Then of course, you'll wanna party, so go to the store and shoplift a bunch of snacks and shit in your pants! Then go take the money out of the cash register!
ANARCHY! ANARCHY! ANARCHY!
A little extreme?
Theft is theft.
Fansubs are a happy gray area. Leave them at that. When it stops being happy and gray is when you need to stop walking around in that area.
And now, my little sheep, I just wanna remind you that this rant has been all my own opinion and shouldn't have anything to do with your own, as if I could effect the way you think anyway.
FEEL MY ANGSTY ANGER!!
Alcohol, Drugs, Overdrive, Noise, Neon Lights, Party People, Revolution
- Dannywilson
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 5:36 am
- Location: In love with Dr. Girlfriend
FLCL. 2 episodes a disc. DVD's 6 months apart. $24 a dvd.
Full Metal Panic. Liscensed almost a year ago. First DVD came out last month. Planned release over a yearlong period.
'Nuff said.
Other than shitbags like those folks, I agree with you.
Full Metal Panic. Liscensed almost a year ago. First DVD came out last month. Planned release over a yearlong period.
'Nuff said.
Other than shitbags like those folks, I agree with you.
"in the morning when i have wood..i like to walk around my house and bump random shit with it.... " -Random comment on grouphug.us
- Garylisk
- Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 2:03 am
- Status: Littlecolt
- Location: USA
- Contact:
That's nothing. I'll buy FLCL and FMP.Dannywilson wrote:FLCL. 2 episodes a disc. DVD's 6 months apart. $24 a dvd.
Full Metal Panic. Liscensed almost a year ago. First DVD came out last month. Planned release over a yearlong period.
'Nuff said.
Other than shitbags like those folks, I agree with you.
What will I NOT buy?
Hrm, after all that ranting, even *I* have ONE exception!
Inu Yasha.
I will not buy Inu Yasha.
Why?
3 episodes a disc. 30 bucks a disc. The show is 100+ episodes. It's still airing in Japan. We dunno how long it will end up being. so, let's do the math, and suppose maybe the series will cap off at 200 episodes, and they keep up the 3 eps a disc bullshit...
200 divided by 3 is 66.6~, or 67 volumes, the last one only having 2 episodes on it.
so, now we take 67 and multiply it by 30
What do we get?
2010.
Let me rephrase that...
TWO THOUSAND AND TEN DOLLARS!!
Let me rephrase that again...
MORE MONEY THAN I WILL SPEND ON INU YASHA!
So yeah.. If you're downloading Inu Yasha, I don't really care, because otherwise you'll have no money for, say, a car... food for god knows how long... gasoline for ages... a vacation in the carribean in the lap of luxury... etc...
There's lots of things that are worth 2000 bucks, and Inu Yasha isn't one of them
That is all.
Alcohol, Drugs, Overdrive, Noise, Neon Lights, Party People, Revolution
- Dannywilson
- Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2002 5:36 am
- Location: In love with Dr. Girlfriend
I didn't say I won't buy them, I'm a consumer whore (And HOW!). It just pisses me off that they would take such an absurdly long amount of time to release them.Garylisk wrote:That's nothing. I'll buy FLCL and FMP.Dannywilson wrote:FLCL. 2 episodes a disc. DVD's 6 months apart. $24 a dvd.
Full Metal Panic. Liscensed almost a year ago. First DVD came out last month. Planned release over a yearlong period.
'Nuff said.
Other than shitbags like those folks, I agree with you.
"in the morning when i have wood..i like to walk around my house and bump random shit with it.... " -Random comment on grouphug.us
- MAS PRODUCTIONS
- Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2001 12:43 pm
- Location: Ft Smith, AR
Usually I dont download anime. Id much rather watch it on dvd, even when I hate the dub I can atleast switch it over to japanese dialogue *cough* FLCL *cough*. Anyways sometimes I download an ep or two of an anime that might be coming out here in the US to see if I will like it or not. I have stuck to this for a long time now, almost every dvd I own was at one point downloaded to see if the anime was any good. I dont download entire series, or atleast if I did, it means I like the anime and buy it when its released. People who download anime in order to avoid buying it only lose in the end. First off if they download anime for amvs, most people will recognize it and more than likely the amv will either get banned or no one will download it. Second, the quality isn't that great.
As far as Danny's comment goes. Think of it this way, the FLCL release could be like it was in japan, only 1 episode per dvd. As far as those who say that its too expensive to buy dvds I say bah. If you can spend 100 dollars on a pair of shoes just because they are cool, then 20 - 30 dollars for an anime DVD is nothing. I am currently a little low on cash but I wouldn't resort to downloading series to avoid having to pay to watch them, I will save up or get a better job. Like my grandfather used to say "anything worth having is never easy to obtain, but when you obtain it, it can bring you great joy." Those who make excuses for downloading anime are only trying to convince themselves in order to feel less guilty.
As far as Danny's comment goes. Think of it this way, the FLCL release could be like it was in japan, only 1 episode per dvd. As far as those who say that its too expensive to buy dvds I say bah. If you can spend 100 dollars on a pair of shoes just because they are cool, then 20 - 30 dollars for an anime DVD is nothing. I am currently a little low on cash but I wouldn't resort to downloading series to avoid having to pay to watch them, I will save up or get a better job. Like my grandfather used to say "anything worth having is never easy to obtain, but when you obtain it, it can bring you great joy." Those who make excuses for downloading anime are only trying to convince themselves in order to feel less guilty.
"What about us lesbians? . . . Your gonna burn in hell of course!" - MXC
"Hey dont knock masturbation, its sex with someone I love!" -- Woody Allen
"Evil will always triumph 'cuz good is dumb!" - Dark Helmet
"Hey dont knock masturbation, its sex with someone I love!" -- Woody Allen
"Evil will always triumph 'cuz good is dumb!" - Dark Helmet
- Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
- Contact:
I haven't met any fansubbers, but the original post reminds me of a topic that came up on my other forum - about scanlators. Specifically the ones who do scanlations for manga. Now, the ones I've talked to *always* stop the moment the manga is taken for license - they stop in their tracks and take down the scanlations. They don't make any money off the work, and it is *hard* work in most cases. I appreciate their efforts. And I *do* feel sorry for them when all that work is cut off half-way through. Sure, it's great to have the license out - their efforts aren't needed anymore. But that doesn't mean they don't experience personal disappointment - think of the project itself and how much time goes into it, and then suddenly they have to drop it dead and never touch it again. I think there's reason to feel at least sympathetic for them.
I'm not supporting the fansubbing or scanlating of licensed material. I just wanted to say that I *can* see where it's sad that a group won't get to finish their work - whether it's scanlating or fansubbing. It's great that the anime gets picked up and distributed, and most scanlators I've talked to are happy when the manga comes out. But they're still disappointed for the lost project - and I understand that.
I'm not supporting the fansubbing or scanlating of licensed material. I just wanted to say that I *can* see where it's sad that a group won't get to finish their work - whether it's scanlating or fansubbing. It's great that the anime gets picked up and distributed, and most scanlators I've talked to are happy when the manga comes out. But they're still disappointed for the lost project - and I understand that.
- AbsoluteDestiny
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:56 pm
- Location: Oxford, UK
- Contact:
Having done fansubbing myself, generally what happens is that we'd continue fansubbing just for ourselves. I don't see this as an issue considering when I did fansubs I actually bought the anime from japan.
Of course, things are different now, but I certainly can't stand this animejunkies crap where they'll actually criticise a company for licensing a title. It's pretty pathetic.
I can wait for anime, there's so much out that I want to buy anyway that I'm glad some things take a while. Provided they do it right (and with FLCL they did a great job) I have no objections to things taking a long time.
Of course, things are different now, but I certainly can't stand this animejunkies crap where they'll actually criticise a company for licensing a title. It's pretty pathetic.
I can wait for anime, there's so much out that I want to buy anyway that I'm glad some things take a while. Provided they do it right (and with FLCL they did a great job) I have no objections to things taking a long time.
- Anlushac11
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 11:43 am
- Location: Indianapolis IN, USA
8)
So this is actually just another ranting post about whether fansubs are robbery or not and whether they do more harm or good?
I have no problems with fansubs. Without fansubs there are many titles I wouldnt even know about.
I have no problems with the fansubs being pulled as soon as the title is liscensed.
I am tired of post after post about whether its right or wrong. Nobody has changed their minds. Both sides think they are in the right. The only things that happens is someone comes along and smacks the proverbial hornets nest. And once everyone calms down nothing has changed.
The only thing I have a problem with is that I can buy a entire 26 episode season of some shows like Babylon 5 or X-files for IIRC between $69-$129.
But to get even 26 episodes of Inuyasha is about $270
GaryLisk's example is exactly my point. Why are they charging so much?
1) Its popular, therefore demand is high. Old law of supply and demand
2) Less Market penetration. They have to charge more because the distributors wont sell as many copies as they would of X-files.
But have no fear. Im sure there are plenty of kids who will whine and cry til their parents buy it for them and then they will be on anime websites calling others cheap bastards and not true anime fans because they dont have a copy, when in actually they didnt have the money to buy it themselves without someone elses help.
In my case I have the misfortune of being in three expensive hobbies: Cars, Computers, and anime. But in my favor is the opening of a anime shop that rents anime so I can go rent whatever I want.
And keep in mind these examples are extremes but they do happen nonetheless.
So this is actually just another ranting post about whether fansubs are robbery or not and whether they do more harm or good?
I have no problems with fansubs. Without fansubs there are many titles I wouldnt even know about.
I have no problems with the fansubs being pulled as soon as the title is liscensed.
I am tired of post after post about whether its right or wrong. Nobody has changed their minds. Both sides think they are in the right. The only things that happens is someone comes along and smacks the proverbial hornets nest. And once everyone calms down nothing has changed.
The only thing I have a problem with is that I can buy a entire 26 episode season of some shows like Babylon 5 or X-files for IIRC between $69-$129.
But to get even 26 episodes of Inuyasha is about $270
GaryLisk's example is exactly my point. Why are they charging so much?
1) Its popular, therefore demand is high. Old law of supply and demand
2) Less Market penetration. They have to charge more because the distributors wont sell as many copies as they would of X-files.
But have no fear. Im sure there are plenty of kids who will whine and cry til their parents buy it for them and then they will be on anime websites calling others cheap bastards and not true anime fans because they dont have a copy, when in actually they didnt have the money to buy it themselves without someone elses help.
In my case I have the misfortune of being in three expensive hobbies: Cars, Computers, and anime. But in my favor is the opening of a anime shop that rents anime so I can go rent whatever I want.
And keep in mind these examples are extremes but they do happen nonetheless.