AX2007 aftermath - The curse of Long Beach returns

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XStylus
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Re: Don't give up hope on AMV at AX yet...

Post by XStylus » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:28 pm

Erinn wrote: I don't get it...if they're so angry about footage being used, then why does Japan even let America License it then?
Licenses are very specific, and are never ever all encompassing. They need to write up separate clauses or separate contracts for each medium, each use, each whatever. It's very meticulous.

For example, when Blu-Ray or HD-DVD becomes prevalent, the US companies will have to renegotiate practically their entire libraries from scratch just so they can distribute on a different medium. And you know those extras you see on the DVDs? Each and every one of those was a separate negotiation point. There's lots of extras on the Japanese DVDs that the US never sees because the companies are denied the rights.

The same goes for distributing on the net. There are HUGE entanglements in getting rights to distribute on the web.

AMV steps on a lot of legal toes. Its a matter of reinterpreting, altering, and distributing a work.
By licensing it, America has a right to sell it and even show it on TV.
Wrong. Not every US company bought broadcast rights for the earlier titles, but nowadays the US companies do on their newer titles. Some are even going back to the negotiating table to purchase the broadcast rights for their older titles.

The thing you need to understand is that if a company licenses something, that doesn't mean they have full do-anything-you-want control over that title. They only have control over the details outlined in their extremely specific contract, and if it's not mentioned in the contract explicitly, then that right is not conveyed and must be separately negotiated if the company wants it later.

They cannot lift a finger unless their contract tells them to, and that contract dictates how high they can lift it and for how long it can remain lifted, as well as which finger.
We buy the DVDs, so therefore, we have a right to do what we want with it since it's basically ours.
Very wrong. You have the right to pop that disc in your DVD player and watch it privately, and that's more or less it. Yeah, you can technically do whatever you want with its contents, but only if what you are doing to it remains private, which means you cannot distribute it, and also so long as you do not violate the DMCA in order to do it, which means you can't rip DVDs in order to do what you want to do to it, which in turn means it is legally impossible for a law abiding citizen to make a re-edit.

Just because we ignore it and feel we are in the right to do something (which I feel we are) doesn't mean we have the legal right to do it (which we do not).

The US companies privately love AMV. If they could sponsor the AMV event without sticking their neck out, believe me, they would. I know of three that would do so in a cold minute.

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The Wired Knight
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Post by The Wired Knight » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:47 pm

You know I've beens eeing a lot of horror stories about this year's AX; a lot of with dealing with teh treatment of guests and attendees. Granted soem of this is due to the conflict between AX Staff and Convention staff but it was out of control this year (includin ghte delay/cancelling of SEVERAL events and concerts leaving many fans with tremendous sunburn issues).

Anyway that said, does anyone know why Viz and Tokyopop did not have a booth at AX this year? Just something I'm wondering



AX will be in LA next year which is a double edged sword imo. LACC is VERY nice, and sufficently large enough and indoors for the convention as a whole so space isn't an issue.

However I think this is a bad plan for AX. the LACC is NOT in a good neighberhood and is considered highly unsafe, especially afterdark. With th enearest hotels being half a mile to a mile away this is a big problem. This is a tremendous problem considering a lot of attendeds are either cosplaying or clearly carrying a lot of bags, kids there, people walking alone, clearly having money on them, teenagers etc.

If you check out boards over the net (AX's ANN's whatever). There are tons of fans now who said they will not go to LA because they fear too much for their safety in the area. I myself may not go simplydue to the area and I cannot afford to keep parking my car two places everyday nor drive in the horrible LA traffic to make it back and forth each day.

I'm planning on writing a letter to AX regarding the safety issue of the LACC though I suspect not much can be done at this point, though if somethign can they should really consider it because from what I am seeing AX attendance will drop substantially should they bein LA.
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Castor Troy
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Post by Castor Troy » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:15 pm

Let's not forget that LA smells like urine most of the time.

How will you pull off the amv dinner there? I don't wanna be 30 miles even close to that area.
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MisterFurious
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Post by MisterFurious » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:57 pm

Castor Troy wrote:I'll still also attend the AX amv dinners, at least I don't need a badge for that.
Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad you'll still be at the dinners. It's one of the highlights of the con for me, even though it's not an official AX event.

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Post by MisterFurious » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:59 pm

Pwolf wrote:
MisterFurious wrote:Do we really need a legitimate reason to DQ Evanesence videos? Aren't there too many of them already?
Thanks for your support of editor's right to edit what they want.

Pwolf
And thanks for having a sense of humor.

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Post by Najdorf » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:59 pm

I've never been to a dinner :(. Next year for sure!

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Post by XStylus » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:09 pm

The Wired Knight wrote:As far as the footage goes thoguh, shouldn't AX be pretty covered on that front? They have to play a lot of things anyway and you would think their blanket of protection would go farther.
That goes back to the licensing post I mentioned earlier. That "blanket of protection" covers basic playback of a show and that's it. The key words in play here are "All rights reserved". The contract says nothing about re-editing of a show, and if it's not explicitly stated in the contract, then that right is reserved (a better word is "withheld").
AMVs showing footage from anime (imo) is technically no different than just showing the anime.
[Sigh] Yes, it is.

Let me try explaining it this way:

Say an artist makes a painting. He's really proud of that painting, and it becomes very popular. So, in addition to the copies he sells to art fans, grants a few art galleries to display his painting.

So, let's say one of those art galleries holds an art competition. The purpose is to make another artistic piece by chopping up and altering the previous artist's piece.

The artist, seeing his work altered in a way he never intended, is horrified at what he perceives as a desecration of his work, and immediately severs his relationship with the gallery.

Now apply that to AMVs.

Granted, the opposite applies as well. For every artist who is horrified, there is an artist who is impressed. However, AX would rather not have an upset guest (contrary to popular belief after this year's BS). So, it keeps the competition cordoned off as quietly as possible so as not to risk upsetting any potentially sensitive guests.
Last edited by XStylus on Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Wired Knight
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Post by The Wired Knight » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:11 pm

MisterFurious wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:I'll still also attend the AX amv dinners, at least I don't need a badge for that.
Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad you'll still be at the dinners. It's one of the highlights of the con for me, even though it's not an official AX event.
Well right now there is a huge petition and a series of letters being written to the SPJA about the LA location from con attendees that don't feel safe and will not go. (This is getting quite sizeable so I don't know what will happen).

Either way, if we do end up at LA I'm considering the following options

1. Something near the general hotel areas (since the nearest hotel is half a mile from the convention center there should be food nearby, when it gets closer I can drive up there and check it out since it's only about a 30-40 drive for me to get to LA).

2. Trying to snag a decent area in one of hte hotels and we order a crapload of pizza

I'll figure a way around it somehow, I'd hate tos ee the creator dinner die since I started running it so many years ago.
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Post by kiarrens » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:46 pm

The Wired Knight wrote:The LACC is NOT in a good neighberhood and is considered highly unsafe, especially afterdark. With th enearest hotels being half a mile to a mile away this is a big problem.
Asked my boyfriend, who grew up in LA, about this. He says:
"It's no worse than any other major city. The downtown area of LA is like Manhattan. It's no worse than any other city, granted the hotels are a bit far away... I've walked downtown LA alone very late at night and had no problems, but it's a percentage game. The more people there are, the more chance something bad might happen to you. Why not look up the crime statistics for other conventions held there to see if there's a basis for this?"

I'd say... as long as people stay in groups traveling to/from the convention center, they should be safe, and he agrees. Only reason I'm posting in here is because we're moving back to LA sometime next year so I may be attending this con, regardless of how the AMVs are handled.
It is indeed sad that they seem to have been treated so badly by the convention as a whole, but given the legality issues, I suppose it was only a matter of time before one con or another began cracking down.
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Post by madmallard » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:14 am

Intellectual property rights may face a major revolution thanks to Microsoft squaring off against Linux on a totally unrelated front.

But rather than get off topic on that, I would say that if the outcome is what matters to any party involved with the AMV contest, then mode and explination become irrelevant.

If the fans and creators lose faith, and they (coordinator or director) say it matters to them if they have faith in it, then all the reasoning in the world is moot. Her(director) seeming irritation about perception is also irrelevant ultimately.

to paraphrase Don Quixote "Al freir de los huevos lo vera."
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