ANIME... not cartoon...

Clara Yuri Asaki · Post by **Clara Yuri Asaki** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:51 pm

First off, I think it'd be alot harder to find a reason that you can say that they are the same, than it would be to find one of why they are different.

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You think I didn't have any reasons to believe what I believe in? I'm not blindly screaming non-sence! I told alot of times that you should already know why they aren't the same. I can't believe that I actually explain to one who calls theirselve an Anime fan why Anime and Cartoons are not the same!

- Yes, they are both types of Animation. But, they are not just interachangble terms. Let's use something else that you HOPEFULLY already know is different from each other. You should be able to switch some words and connect it right with Anime and Cartoons. Rap and Country are both types of music. They are not the same. But they are both music. They both can have singing. They both can have rythym. They both can have beats. They can both sing about the same exact thing. They have the same things, yet they are not the same thing! Exact same concept for Anime and Cartoons!

- They have a VERY different way of being drawn! The art-style should be enough to seperate them! Things that are typically drawn in Anime are very different from things that are typically drawn in Cartoons! One typical thing in an Anime may not have any meaning (or the same meaning) in a Cartoon, and vice-versa!

- The same situations are shown in very different ways in Anime and Cartoons! Death is good example! Death is very serious in your standard Anime. Only when it's a funny Anime does Death becomes less-serious. In Cartoons, a cartoon char can go through the same thing that may kill an Anime char (getting run over by a car, getting shot, falling from a huge height) and it's suppose always be funny and they just walk away from it. Of course, alot of Anime chars walk away from what a normal would've died from, but that's cause its supposed to show that they are really strong, or that they just can't die yet, or they've been chosen to live, or something like that.
Love is easily shown very differently too. Love is more of a special thing and a passion in Anime. (not always serious for sure!) There's more meaning in Love in Anime. Cartoons rarely take love seriously! It's just about always supposed to be funny! Even when people get their hearts and hopes broken! It's kinda disgracefully actually..... But anyways!

- References are very different. Alot of Anime has shown many religous references and even historical references. Cartoons have very few and are only of things that we know everyone knows. (E=mc2....etc)

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I know I'm forgetting about some things here....... Well... when one of you says something about this, I'll remember something else.

(if there are typos, SORRY! I didn't look it over again.....)

The Non-Professional · Post by **The Non-Professional** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:52 pm

JUST LET THIS THREAD DIE ALREADY!

Anime Jedi · Post by **Anime Jedi** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:02 pm

Engar wrote:But seriously, this whole argument could be avoided if
A. Clara stated in a clear voice the exact difference without using the words "They, Just or Are."
B. Tsuji Mania was just a little nicer and a little more polite.

Just useless advice from a nosey person who seeks a higher postcount.

Well, you still have a long ways to go. 16 is... let's put it this way, a good start.

Anyways, Clara has been giving it her best shot, but she hasn't had enough constant support. So, this has sort of felt like a team up thread.

Maybe it's just that this thread is getting to Tsuji Mania. But you have been a little unpolitely persistent on the subject... Don't worry, we hear you loud and clear about where you stand on the subject.

Clara Yuri Asaki · Post by **Clara Yuri Asaki** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:32 pm

Non-Professional. You made something that has grown, and now you want to kill it? Why?

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Yes, Anime Jedi, this has been quite the one-woman-army war for me. But for our favorite one-woman-army Anime girls (Lina Inverse and Excel are just two of the many of them that I really like) and Anime itself, I'm not going down, or allowing them to be reduced to just "cartoons". Calling an Anime a Cartoon is like calling a Woman "just a sex object". It is very depraving and insulting to the craftwork, art, beauty, and feelings put into them. You know I won't just stand around and let that happen. *Cool unsheath sword sound* "Bring it on"

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I suppose someone would also like to call today's Electronic Gaming just "toys".

(yes, by "today's Electronic Gaming", I mean Playstation 1 & 2, XBox, GameCube, all of them)

Angel_Killer_777 · Post by **Angel_Killer_777** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:09 pm

Just like you to be awair Clara that you still haven't made a good point. Not all amine takes things seriously and not all american cartoons make very thing a joke. And saying that they are drawn differently is a bad argument. There are many diffornet styles in both american and japanese animation. Pokemon doesn't look anything like Akira, and Samari Jack doesn't look any thing like Spawn.

Clara Yuri Asaki · Post by **Clara Yuri Asaki** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:16 pm

Of course not all Cartoons and all Anime are included in what I said. But what I said did clarify on why Anime and Cartoons are not the same.

Angel_Killer_777 · Post by **Angel_Killer_777** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:35 pm

Nope, I'm still not confinced.

Clara Yuri Asaki · Post by **Clara Yuri Asaki** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:40 pm

Hmm.. well, you might be convinced if you read what I said alittle more deeply.

And if you're still not convinced, then maybe you or anyone else can try telling me why Anime and Cartoons are the same.

Anime Jedi · Post by **Anime Jedi** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:49 pm

No need to even try to convince anyone. We're just here to show our point of view. If others share it, Yay! If not, we respect the selected path they chose.

Tsuji Mania · Post by **Tsuji Mania** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:51 pm

I'm saying that if you truly believe that Anime and Cartoons are the same, then you must not know enough about them to argue that they are different.

Thank you (yet again) for certifying that you have no proof, and it is only your vapid opinion.

That's for the one I missed, but I'll let it slip in an effort to be a
little nicer.

Actually Engar, you're right I could be a little nicer. However:

A. I WAS nice up. I didn't mention any names even up until about page.....12 or 13 or so where I *snapped*

B. This is ridiculous. I'm not even bothering to convince Clara of anything. And I could care less if the thread gets locked and she doesn't accept fact. It's now come to a point where it is just so much fun to see how many errors I can point out.

Now to Clara's credit she finally came up with some reasons (after 21 pages) for why anime is different. Let's analyze them.

Rap and Country are both types of music. They are not the same. But they are both music. They both can have singing. They both can have rythym. They both can have beats. They can both sing about the same exact thing. They have the same things, yet they are not the same thing! Exact same concept for Anime and Cartoons!

Nay dear Clara. You are comparing two different genre of an overall scheme that is called "music".

In this topic we are discussing an overall scheme, "animation".
Now I will let it slide that you missed the fact that first music must be divided into categories such as "instrumental" and "non-instrumental"
and any number of varying subdegrees that must be breached before even reaching something as complex in the web as "rap" or "country".

Now in animation if we skip some levels just as you have "computer animation" "hand drawn" etc. we will reach actual categories of sublevels of animation, or simply genre. One of these is "Cartoons". Cartoons as I already defined pages upon pages back, are humorous sketches. They are not clearly defined as being made for an age, race or religion. They are simply sketches drawn with the attempt to be humorous. Under this category you will find countless other divisions, those for children, those for adults, etc. And no doubt under children and adults you will find a final step, Animation from Japan.

Now I must say the above was all useless. Why? Because what does "anime" mean? It's means animation. So that means it encompasses everything above. Animation from Japan is not "anime" it is "Nihon no anime". So the purpose of the thread in general has been weak, but I've been quiet about it because I understand you're speaking from a frame of refference that is American, but regardless you must recognize that "anime" means animation, not animation from Japan.

Okay that's one theory destroyed.

Neeeeeeext!

[/quote]They have a VERY different way of being drawn!

That's absurd. That's laughable. If you count that as a difference. Then if I drew something...anything, (a pot, pan, fish, desk, lamp), as it appears in any given animation from Japan, ever, then it would automatically become a Japanese animation.

If the producers of "Rugrats" suddenly began drawing the episodes based on Japanese characters, it would become a Japanese animation. Why? Obviously it's not from Japan, but it looks the same, so it must be the same.

That's two.

The same situations are shown in very different ways in Anime and Cartoons!
Aha~! Now here you start to make a good point, and actually this is the closest I would come to accepting a reason for calling them something different. But it's still wrong.

Death is very serious in your standard Anime.
Yes you're absolutely right. I find nothing funny about the following. They are incredibly serious.

1. Excel getting hit by a vehicle.
2. Excel getting shot in the head.
3. Excel getting shot in the face with a bazooka.
4. Excel getting hit by a vehicle...again.
5. The great Damuramoo getting his sword through his head and surviving the ordeal to become a mecha version of himself.
6. The dud bomb exploding 5 minutes later in the police station in Akira.
7. Son Gokou killing the wolves that attacked him and watching them be grilled on a stick.
8. Anything that dies in Slayers.

To name only a few.

In Cartoons, a cartoon char can go through the same thing that may kill an Anime char (getting run over by a car, getting shot, falling from a huge height) and it's suppose always be funny and they just walk away from it. Of course, alot of Anime chars walk away from what a normal would've died from, but that's cause its supposed to show that they are really strong, or that they just can't die yet, or they've been chosen to live, or something like that.
Of course....that never ever happens in a Japanese animation. (see above)

Love is easily shown very differently too. Love is more of a special thing and a passion in Anime. (not always serious for sure!) There's more meaning in Love in Anime. Cartoons rarely take love seriously! It's just about always supposed to be funny! Even when people get their hearts and hopes broken! It's kinda disgracefully actually..... But anyways!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I can't wait till you grow up and see the real themes in most Japanese animation. Most of the time in avante garde series, the main idea is that love is crippling and love kills. Simply refer to Ninja Scroll for an example of this.

Ever watch Heavy Metal? How about The Hobbit? Spawn?

And how about the "special passion" shown in tentacle rape? Yeah, La Blue Girl, Urotsukidoji, Bible Black, etc. Those are special alright in their own way.

Three strikes. Now the final blow.

References are very different. Alot of Anime has shown many religous references and even historical references. Cartoons have very few and are only of things that we know everyone knows. (E=mc2....etc)

This is possibly the most ignorant thing you have ever said. Do you even watch American programming?

Ever seen the Simpsons? How about South Park? The themes in these are scholarly and I don't care how filfthy or childish South Park may seem, it is one of the finest social commentaries on television. If you have a high school education and don't watch for fart jokes, you can see what many of the episodes are commenting on in our society.

Okay you're finished.

Now then, all of this is pointless. You are still grouping Japanese animation together as one lump sum, as am I SOLELY for purposes of this response.

I was addressing animations like "The Hobbit" "Heavy Metal" etc. as if they were cartoons. They aren't.

The problem is the same from the beginning. You absolutely refuse to believe that there are different genre of animation. And from the start you refuse to accept that because you seriously want everyone reading your statements to believe that ANYTHING coming out of America is a cartoon, and that ANYTHING coming out of Japan is a drama!!!

You mentioned the dealings with love, inner strength, symbolism, refferences. You honestly think every anime has that!? How about Parappa the Rapper？ Crayon Shinchan???!!!!! Do you even know what Crayon Shinchan is???? HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY LUMP ALL THOSE THINGS TOGETHER AS ONE GIANT UGLY CONGLOMERATE?!

I said it before and I say it again. Japanese animation may be cartoons. But in the same vein, American animation may be a drama.

But it's useless to try to get you to accept that. I just enjoy doing this kind of thing.

Toodles