The Great Debate: Effects and Presets

[Autraya]

So by now many of you are becoming aware of shift in general opinion against preset effects, if you are then read the review for spoil it's been happeneing on for some time though.


So here's what I'd like people to discuss CALMLY AND WITHOUT FLAMING OR TRYING TO PROVOKE EACH OTHER.(disclaimer; the caps are merely emphasize my point and not to be construed as shouting or w/e, there will also be some shameless self pimpage here)

So what's a preset?
To me a preset is something like "solarise", "noise" and "blurs"
After reading the Review on spoil it seems that many consider using the default settings on and plug-ins or pregenerated textures and mattes to also be presets.
Does that mean that the effects in this video are all considered presets?


At what point does an effect not become a a preset?
So if you use things like riot gear and "shatter" but you change them like using a custom shatter map or making 7 layer track mattes like the "flame wipe" i made in this video does it not count as a preset anymore? Or the effect in Metro's vid which are right out of a book but with tweaking or perhaps Mr mercury goin psychadelic in Req's vid counts?



Does that mean for anyone to have "good effects" (let us not argue wether effects are good or not please) you have to make something like this in "3D", I'd like to think that most of us are editors not 3D graphics artists and nor should we have to be that's a different field all together (although as shown they do integrate)


Why are people argueing against the use of presets?
Certainly i didn't see such complaints about this video and yet all it uses are presets? Does that make it a bad video? I should bloody well hope not and I really don't see how that detracts from the video infact if anything it enhances the video.



So in closing what I'd like to do is open up the floor for discussion and explanations so everyone can understand what the problem with presets is.

I'll start by saying I personally don't mind people using a preset like noise or blur or even riot gear if integrated properly into a video to enhance the sync/flow/story w/e. What i hate are ugly looking inverts and solarises or camera shaking just "cause it's an effect" for the sake of adding an effect. I find it very challenging to add appropriate effects to a video. I don't like it when video descriptions/editors go on about how much effort/effects they put in when they just used a preset (note I'm not having a go at spoil here at all) it's just a general statement. This is one of my favourite videos and yet i barely notice the effects and had no idea until i read the description about what went into it, this would make it pretty seemless (but I'm a waffle fangirl so my opinion could be byast)

[Pwolf]

people argue over preset effects? o.o

also, i think the only "preset effect" i used in that video was the b&w filter >.> hmm i used some color balance filtering also... but most of it was just b&w over the dv captures.


Pwolf

[Lockstock]

effects suck

[BasharOfTheAges]

1) Once you know how something is done it looses some of it's magic.
2) Having presets look good by chance happens as much as randomly dropping footage on the time line and it syncing up perfectly. Nobody's going to begrudge you the "chance sync" because they don't know, but when you effect work is so easy to pick out that all you're doing is impressing noobs, you don't deserve that much respect for the work.
3) Notice how I bolded the word all up there in #2? I meant that. If you're doing more, using lots of presets will have an effect on your video, but it's stupid to speak in absolutes about this kind of thing unless all your video really has going for it are effects sequences.
4) A star wipe is still a star-wipe. A lens-flare is still a lens flare. They have an almost comedic double-nature and shouldn't be taken into account when discussing all of this.
5) See 3. No really; It's important to realize it's stupid to speak in absolutes unless the works you're talking about are 1-dimensional.

[Kisanzi]

So what's a preset?
To me a preset is something like "solarise", "noise" and "blurs"
After reading the Review on spoil it seems that many consider using the default settings on and plug-ins or pregenerated textures and mattes to also be presets.
Does that mean that the effects in this video are all considered presets?

I hope you're not suggesting my paint swipes and such are presets, cause that vid was made entirely in Premiere and all that stuff was drawn and masked out of photoshop. Only presets I remember using was a B&W filter and an invert in there. But those were back in my pre-AE days.


But I agree with the argument. It's not the fact that presets are bad, but just throwing them into a vid in their raw form is boring and mundane. By presets, I think more along the lines of preset light rays, fractal noise, grunge textures, etc. Programs like AE and such can alter footage so dramatically that it's very lazy and unoriginal to use FX packages out of the can without thinking outside the box. The point of these things is to stimulate and supplement your ideas, not be the video. If you're making the vid and using these to just give it an "OMG FX!" feel then you're using them in the wrong way.

I'm all for originality and creativity. There's millions of way to implement these FX and alter them so greatly that it becomes your own work and not just someone else's. And there's many vids that use these FX and totally throw basic visual composition concepts. The reason to use FX in the first place is to create mood and realize your concepts, not just act as wow! factor.

So my stance is, if you need to use them then go for it. But use them to create your own look. Don't just toss them in the way you've seen them used in tutorials or previous videos and expect other FX editors to not be rolling their eyes. Make something that you can call yours, not something that's trying to capitalize on other popular vids.

[Kariudo]

I'll start by saying I personally don't mind people using a preset like noise or blur or even riot gear if integrated properly into a video to enhance the sync/flow/story w/e. What i hate are ugly looking inverts and solarises or camera shaking just "cause it's an effect" for the sake of adding an effect. I find it very challenging to add appropriate effects to a video.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on effects.
"presets" can be appropriate, and if it enhances the video (really anything that's not there for the sake of being there) then it gets an from me.

I don't like it when video descriptions/editors go on about how much effort/effects they put in when they just used a preset

that is discouraging, but for me it depends on how appropriate the effects are.
Someone who only does inverts, hue cycles, zooms, etc... and says that they put a lot of work into it irks me

I have nothing against flashy videos that use tons of "effects", and I like watching videos like that...but it's only a certain subset of videos that the OTT amount of effects is appropriate for.

so now defining preset vs effect
preset: any stock effect/plugin.
effect: anything involving rotoscoping, or combining several presets (or both). 3D & camera motion (not normal pans/zooms) also fall into this category...but someday these will probably be reclassified as "presets" as well.

that's just my general idea of it...invert + zoom wouldn't cut the grade as an "effect" for me.
This distinction is just following the law of diminishing returns
once an effect has been done, people get used to it and want to see new and more spectacular effects. (Which explains why a distinction is being made)
it doesn't make "presets" any less good/appropriate, but it does leave something to be desired (for the people who have been seeing it for a while)

[Castor Troy]

Don't diss the star wipe.

[Pwolf]

curious... do people say don't use star wipes or lenses flares ever? cause i can think of some good reasons to use em and have seen good videos that have.

Is the argument about using presets vs not using them? honestly, i don't think thats something to argue about... with any kind of effect, whither or not its built in or home made, if you don't execute it correctly, it wont work or people wont like it.

you can make an amazingly complex effect but use it horribly wrong. You wont get praise for it. In the same manner, you can do something so simple that it makes people like it just for that simple effect. A simple frame hold can be #1 on someones top 10 list.

Pwolf

[jbone]

people argue over preset effects? o.o

[Autraya]

people argue over preset effects? o.o

In a word: Yes

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... hp?t=86404

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... sc&start=0

But really these are just recent examples, it's been shifting for a little while


Kisanzi: lol yeah my bad, I was going off memory and I recall some edge, noise and riot gear in that since it's not on my play list here i had little choice I should have pimped another one of my vids instead to make my point more obvious i suppose.