So, are you saying the VCAs are Faked to ....Fall_Child42 wrote:Like the real election counts aren't faked anyway.JudgeHolden wrote:I want the process to be more transparent. Total of vote, how many votes for each video, ect. Would you really want to wake up after an election to find out that the election commission would tell you who won, but not allow you to know you the total votes for each candidate?
I don't want who voted for what, just the numbers.
You have FAR too much trust in your electoral procedures.
Winners of the 2008 Viewers' Choice Awards! [+ post mortem]
- JudgeHolden
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- Fall_Child42
- has a rock
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I'm saying the numbers would be no more or less accurate than simply stating who won.JudgeHolden wrote:So, are you saying the VCAs are Faked to ....Fall_Child42 wrote:Like the real election counts aren't faked anyway.JudgeHolden wrote:I want the process to be more transparent. Total of vote, how many votes for each video, ect. Would you really want to wake up after an election to find out that the election commission would tell you who won, but not allow you to know you the total votes for each candidate?
I don't want who voted for what, just the numbers.
You have FAR too much trust in your electoral procedures.
It's like American Idol ¦:O
- OmniStrata
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- jasper-isis
- P. Y. T.
- Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:02 am
- Status: catching all the lights
Doki was curious about the influence of non-editor votes ("the masses" ) on VCA results, so he did some research. Here are the results of the unofficial Editors' Choice Awards:
Best Dance: Magic Pad (VCA 2nd)
Best Dramatic: Time Waits For No One (VCA tied for 2nd)
Best First: The Battle of Heroic Souls (VCA 2nd)
Best Fun: daydream (VCA 2nd)
Best Sentimental: Time Waits For No One (VCA 2nd)
Most Helpful: JaddziaDax (VCA tied for 2nd)
Most Original: daydream (VCA 2nd)
The other 18 categories: the same as the VCAs. Yes, all of them. The very same.
Anyway, I guess I should come back and address some of the suggestions here.
We could potentially create a "disputes" system where people can challenge the validity of entries with the contest coordinator. For example, if you find that a Best First Video entry were NOT actually the editor's first video, then you'd notify the coordinator through the disputes system, and if the issue is deemed valid, then the entry would be disqualified. Etc.
Now, regarding the vote counts...
My opinion is that posting the vote counts would not benefit the contest in any useful ways Most AMV contests that I'm familiar with do not make a habit of releasing their vote counts (except, sometimes, to contestants for the sake of satisfying curiosities, and only on request). Why? For two main reasons. First, it creates unnecessary drama based on results - and like I said, we already have enough negativity focusing around the results rather than the goals/methods of this contest.
Second, it provides data that people are likely to read too much into - and I mean that in the sincerest manner. What kind of new information do you hope to glean? Like Todd said, it's like revealing the numbers for American Idol. Yes, it's somewhat like a popularity contest. Yes, some people are only going to vote for their friends or their favorite editors. You can't eliminate those factors from a Viewers' Choice type contest. (But what we CAN do is to help people watch as many of the entries as possible, so that we can approximate informed viewers' choices as best as we can.)
Vote tallies aren't going to reveal corruption or cheating. We, the admin, have better tools that help us catch cheaters to the best of our ability. And if you're worried about corruption on the admin level - well, there's not much I can say to that except this: if you're going to believe in any one part of a contest, it's gotta be the coordinator's integrity. Otherwise, there's really no point in supporting the contest at all.
I understand there's a "ooh, interesting" factor involved in seeing stats though, so I wouldn't mind leaving the posting of stats up to the coordinators' discretion from year-to-year - as long as they keep in mind the above arguments. But considering the time and effort it would take to collect and post all of the voting data, I can't quite justify making it a policy to post the tallies at the end of every contest.
Best Dance: Magic Pad (VCA 2nd)
Best Dramatic: Time Waits For No One (VCA tied for 2nd)
Best First: The Battle of Heroic Souls (VCA 2nd)
Best Fun: daydream (VCA 2nd)
Best Sentimental: Time Waits For No One (VCA 2nd)
Most Helpful: JaddziaDax (VCA tied for 2nd)
Most Original: daydream (VCA 2nd)
The other 18 categories: the same as the VCAs. Yes, all of them. The very same.
Anyway, I guess I should come back and address some of the suggestions here.
Well, the point is to make the VCA an opt-in activity. Some editors have missed submitting to the VCA in the past, yes, but this year we made a huge effort to remind people about the deadline and to make the qualifications process as painless as possible.Turbo wrote:To-do list for next year:
1) Enable "Put all your videos in catalog" by default
Xexyzl wrote:How about making the Finalist video pack a torrent? Might help save on bandwidth…
We're working on a better way of delivering VCA entries to voters for next year.Spk1983 wrote:I kinda liked/disliked the shortened voting period: it certainly would allow it to drag out less, but then for someone like me who is still on dialup ( >_< ), it was rather hassling to download all the semifinal/final videos in time to make a truly objective choice, having effectively 1 day to make my choices
I too think we could do better by prohibiting unintended subtitles and watermarks (though I would let bad AR slide), but logistically it would be difficult for us to enforce quality requirements.Driftroot wrote:/me deletes lengthy rant about messed up aspect ratios and subtitled footage being allowed past the front door of the VCAs.
We could potentially create a "disputes" system where people can challenge the validity of entries with the contest coordinator. For example, if you find that a Best First Video entry were NOT actually the editor's first video, then you'd notify the coordinator through the disputes system, and if the issue is deemed valid, then the entry would be disqualified. Etc.
Now, regarding the vote counts...
My opinion is that posting the vote counts would not benefit the contest in any useful ways Most AMV contests that I'm familiar with do not make a habit of releasing their vote counts (except, sometimes, to contestants for the sake of satisfying curiosities, and only on request). Why? For two main reasons. First, it creates unnecessary drama based on results - and like I said, we already have enough negativity focusing around the results rather than the goals/methods of this contest.
Second, it provides data that people are likely to read too much into - and I mean that in the sincerest manner. What kind of new information do you hope to glean? Like Todd said, it's like revealing the numbers for American Idol. Yes, it's somewhat like a popularity contest. Yes, some people are only going to vote for their friends or their favorite editors. You can't eliminate those factors from a Viewers' Choice type contest. (But what we CAN do is to help people watch as many of the entries as possible, so that we can approximate informed viewers' choices as best as we can.)
Vote tallies aren't going to reveal corruption or cheating. We, the admin, have better tools that help us catch cheaters to the best of our ability. And if you're worried about corruption on the admin level - well, there's not much I can say to that except this: if you're going to believe in any one part of a contest, it's gotta be the coordinator's integrity. Otherwise, there's really no point in supporting the contest at all.
I understand there's a "ooh, interesting" factor involved in seeing stats though, so I wouldn't mind leaving the posting of stats up to the coordinators' discretion from year-to-year - as long as they keep in mind the above arguments. But considering the time and effort it would take to collect and post all of the voting data, I can't quite justify making it a policy to post the tallies at the end of every contest.
- Fall_Child42
- has a rock
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- Location: Jurassic Park
- godix
- a disturbed member
- Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2002 12:13 am
Why? I never understood the point of that. I mean disqualifying for various rulebreaking, fine, whatever. But disqualifying because an editor doesn't come to the org and click a box? What the hell? Isn't it supposed to be a contest about the best videos of the year, not the best of whoever happens to remember to click a box?jasper-isis wrote:Well, the point is to make the VCA an opt-in activity.
Perhaps you could call your new dispute system the 'Just PM me' system.We could potentially create a "disputes" system where people can challenge the validity of entries with the contest coordinator. For example, if you find that a Best First Video entry were NOT actually the editor's first video, then you'd notify the coordinator through the disputes system, and if the issue is deemed valid, then the entry would be disqualified. Etc.
As a side note, it's odd that I disagree even more with editors choice than I do with the viewers choice.
- Kalium
- Sir Bugsalot
- Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:17 pm
- Location: Plymouth, Michigan
One of the underlying ideas of virtually all contests is that you must actively choose to participate. There's no convincing reason for the VCAs to be an exception.godix wrote:Why? I never understood the point of that. I mean disqualifying for various rulebreaking, fine, whatever. But disqualifying because an editor doesn't come to the org and click a box? What the hell? Isn't it supposed to be a contest about the best videos of the year, not the best of whoever happens to remember to click a box?jasper-isis wrote:Well, the point is to make the VCA an opt-in activity.
As has been amply demonstrated in the past, a lot of people neither know of nor care about the forums. An email address might be workable, but relying on PMs comes with a host of potential problems.godix wrote:Perhaps you could call your new dispute system the 'Just PM me' system.We could potentially create a "disputes" system where people can challenge the validity of entries with the contest coordinator. For example, if you find that a Best First Video entry were NOT actually the editor's first video, then you'd notify the coordinator through the disputes system, and if the issue is deemed valid, then the entry would be disqualified. Etc.
- DriftRoot
- Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:18 pm
- Status: As important as any plug-in.
- Location: N.H.
I'd hazard a guess that the people most likely to dispute a VCA semifinalist/finalist are the people who know and/or care about the forums. Not saying PMs are the proper method of notification, just pointing out that it's people 'round here who are most likely to dispute something.Kalium wrote: As has been amply demonstrated in the past, a lot of people neither know of nor care about the forums. An email address might be workable, but relying on PMs comes with a host of potential problems.
- Autraya
- Zero Punctuation
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:52 am
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- Location: Terra Australis
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Some ideas/suggestions:
The ribbon is a great idea, why not go 1 step further (so doki never gets a break ) and honour the winners from every year by adding a ribbon with the year on it for each video o.O
I would be interested in seeing how many people actually voted in each years VCA, to really see how many opinions we are actually getting.(not votes per video)
Put some kind of block in place that prevents people from voting for their own videos.
explain that bug relating to multiple anime vids that I raised in a previous thread.
Make the winners pay for their own shipping costs
maybe offer free "donator staus" as a prize? or renew the winner automatically in the next year.
maybe Disputes forum that can be posted in but not viewed or is annoymous? or you can only view your own message unless your a mod... just some ideas
Good points and/or suggestions already mentioned on this thread:
Short time frame
Automatically tick the "all my vids are entered box" (what actually is the point of that box? I don't actually know.
Good category descriptions and perhaps add a "serious" category
Organisers were flexible and made changes where apropriate as contest was underway.
token girl mod my ass!
The ribbon is a great idea, why not go 1 step further (so doki never gets a break ) and honour the winners from every year by adding a ribbon with the year on it for each video o.O
I would be interested in seeing how many people actually voted in each years VCA, to really see how many opinions we are actually getting.(not votes per video)
Put some kind of block in place that prevents people from voting for their own videos.
explain that bug relating to multiple anime vids that I raised in a previous thread.
Make the winners pay for their own shipping costs
maybe offer free "donator staus" as a prize? or renew the winner automatically in the next year.
maybe Disputes forum that can be posted in but not viewed or is annoymous? or you can only view your own message unless your a mod... just some ideas
Good points and/or suggestions already mentioned on this thread:
Short time frame
Automatically tick the "all my vids are entered box" (what actually is the point of that box? I don't actually know.
Good category descriptions and perhaps add a "serious" category
Organisers were flexible and made changes where apropriate as contest was underway.
token girl mod my ass!
new banzors in the making :p