Regarding the rules ...

Sukunai · Post by **Sukunai** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:37 am

No anime producer is obligated to permit fan subs.

But I can compare that with no game producer is obligated to provide demos.

Fansubs are just part of the process of doing business in the English language market. I wish someone could just make a legally binding ruling on it (but I'm not going to hold my breath).

I too prefer word of mouth on a lot of products. But in a lot of cases, word of mouth for a game comes after a lot of people have worked as beta testers and have tried the demo.
Fansubs aren't "demos" genuinely speaking. Perhaps the anime producers would prefer the fansubbers to intentionally only fansub a portion of a series. Thus, they would be providing demos, thus they would be creating incentive to purchase the dvd to see how the show ends.
I doubt that would amuse anyone though.

And it fails the comparison of having watched a tv show, and then deciding to purchase it on dvd.

I also thought about it more, and mangas, would there even be a market for anime mangas in the absence of anime fan subs which has drawn in the non Japanese speaking fan?
I have no hard facts, but I DO think mangas became popular AFTER the initial anime shows arrived here. It might be different in Japan, and likely is. But that's Japan, and not here.

It's shown on tv in Japan, and that's Japan. Here in Canada, it's not illegal to record shows off tv. Then again, shows on tv here are not in Japanese either.
I suppose if the anime producers simply decided to air a show here in Canada at the same time as it aired in Japan, things would be a lot simpler. And I highly doubt it would be hard to find individuals to perform the alternate language airing.

Would that increase the cost risk if the show didn't fly. Well of course it would.
But then the case of allowing/not allowing fan subs would become moot. People would be able to watch it on tv instead of a fansub in the first place.

Wouldn't make the internet go away (no shock there), but, I think they would not lose much in the way of audience. I don't think most fans want to watch it subbed on widely varying codec types in small windows on a computer. I know I'd rather watch it on my tv where it belongs.

And of course there is the content issue. I get tired of my culture being unable to deal with Japanese culture. Yaoi and Yuri is no big deal to me. We suppooooosedly tolerate the "alternate" lifestyle here. But I don't feel like being made to watch anime in remote timeslots all because some girl in a show happens to be lesbian.

Immorrel · Post by **Immorrel** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:02 am

For the most part, you're preaching to the choir. I'm sure everyone would love it if new anime releases in Japan aired everywhere else at the same time. The problem is the same reason that games take so long to release, production time. If it takes a certain amount of time to get an episode done in Japanese (script written, anime drawn, VAs recorded, music placed in all the right places) you have to do most of that again just to get the English track (plus adding subs for those of us that prefer that). So you're practically doubling production time and cost, plus you'd be gambling on if it would make you money. We love our anime, but is there enough of a demographic to actually air it on TV anywhere besides in Japan (where the fan base is assured).

I generally prefer fansubs (their translations tend to flow better for me (I'm a chinese translater and know how hard it can be to get proper English out of another language)) but they'll never be legal. It's just the nature of the beast. But as long as fansubbers stay on the grey side of things (no subbing US licensed stuff) there will always be fansubbers provide those of us that can't wait with our fix.

Sukunai · Post by **Sukunai** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:33 am

Actually, the funny thing is, I have never actually encountered any Japanese that like anime

While I have met Japanese that love our crappy cartoons.

And while I would be hard pressed to find "a lot" of people in town that openly like anime if I just asked on the street, I do actually know quite a few locals that enjoy anime.

Demographically speaking, I think people tend to take for granted something that just seems to be everywhere.

I go to my friends place (the ones with two young kids), and they have the predictable kiddie shows on. But man I am sure glad I am not forced to have Dora or Franklin on any more. My son grew out of all that a few years ago.

I wonder what Japanese parents think of our mainstream anime?
I'm am old person demographically speaking, but I have no problem with almost any of anime.

Lyrs · Post by **Lyrs** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:16 pm

Endorsing//Officially Allowing Downloaded anime in AMVs => Easy legal target

oldwrench · Post by **oldwrench** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:14 pm

To many people who download anime, never do purchase any. This is why companies like Geneon have quit producing anime. If you argue that you want the original language with a good sub, all the dvds sold here have it. If we download our anime and don't buy, the industry will come to a screeching halt. If it weren't for the mony from US distributors, there wouldn't be much anime out there at all. They depend on us to make their profit.

Great places online for anime, www.rightstuf.com always comes up with great sales. www.advfilms.com , periodically has some great sales. www.deepdiscount.com has some good prices too. You can also try netflix, they have quite a large anime assortment to rent.

Sukunai · Post by **Sukunai** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:02 pm

It always comes down to what comes first the fansub that creates interest, or the product on dvd?

I have yet to ever buy a tv series on dvd before I watched it FOR FREE on tv (or any other method for that matter).

I have yet to encounter anyone saying anything about an anime before they saw the fansub.

I've never met a person that buys anime on dvd that they have never seen before.

I realize that anime usually begins as Manga. but this isn't Japan, and they don't run manga in the weekly papers here at all ever. We simply don't have anything like that.

I can find manga by the ton once a year at the convention I go to. Once a year is like the case for most con goers.
Not much of an opening to expose customers to manga if you ask me.

Sometimes THE LAW simply doesn't exist all that well in REALITY

Oh well, the org has to cover its bases, can't bitch about that.

If the publishers of anime refuse to chose reality over legality, I guess they get to have sales that suck.

Malificus · Post by **Malificus** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:29 pm

I have yet to encounter anyone saying anything about an anime before they saw the fansub.

Do you mean like, a person telling you what an anime they haven't seen is about, or like expressing interest in an anime they haven't seen yet?

lestheanimesarge wrote:I've never met a person that buys anime on dvd that they have never seen before.

I've done that. All the time. Often without even a recommendation from someone who saw it. |:

lestheanimesarge wrote:I realize that anime usually begins as Manga. but this isn't Japan, and they don't run manga in the weekly papers here at all ever. We simply don't have anything like that.

I can find manga by the ton once a year at the convention I go to. Once a year is like the case for most con goers.
Not much of an opening to expose customers to manga if you ask me.

Manga is common in most major book stores, and has been for years now. And there are at least two monthly manga magazines (Jump and Beat)

wurpess · Post by **wurpess** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:25 am

Malificus wrote:
lestheanimesarge wrote:I've never met a person that buys anime on dvd that they have never seen before.
I've done that. All the time. Often without even a recommendation from someone who saw it. |:

Same here. I've never dled a fansub in my life, but have bought quite a bit of anime on DVD. Most of the time, I buy anime based off of recomendations, reviews and stuff I've seen in AMVs. But I've bought anime I'd never seen or heard about because, from the synopsis, it looked interesting. I've only gone wrong once, (Doki Doki School Hours), but it wasn't a total loss, since I can still use it in AMVs.

Immorrel · Post by **Immorrel** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:48 am

I second the impulse buying of anime. I'd never heard of "The Legend of Black Heaven" before, but when rightstuf did their sell everything for cheap sale, I picked it up on a whim. It's now one of my favorite animes ever. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean that it isn't good. Also making it a requirement to buy something really restricts what you can buy. However, no one can tell you what you think, and how you go about enjoying your life, so take this with a grain of salt and do what you do. Just do all of us that enjoy anime in the "legal" way and try to buy as much as you download, that way everyone can enjoy anime however they go about it

Facem@n · Post by **Facem@n** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:07 pm

I've bought a few series without knowing anything about it. I saw Planetes while wandering about my local anime store and bought the first volume DVD just because of the box cover art alone. I liked it enough to get the rest of the series. And then there are others I just see and buy (and don't watch).

If you're short on money, there's always the option of renting the first volume of a series, and seeing if you like it enough to buy it and subsequent volumes. Or you could wait to see it on TV. I've also found you can trust most of the reviews for DVDs and Manga on ANN and AoD. Or even just ask a friend.