Sony Vegas AVI issue!!!!!

mahler · Post by **mahler** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:36 am

JaddziaDax wrote:but either way BOTH lose quality when you use them, therefore they are lossy... if you don't want to lose quality, you should use a lossless codec or uncompressed.

DV is lightly compressed. Do you seriously think it's the same degree of lossiness as WMV? It's quite misleading to put them in the same category, without further explanation.

If it were so grievous, why is it listed as an acceptable codec in the guide? I actually take the guide at its word, and figured that it must be okay. I was led to understand that as long as you didn't do a lot of re-re-compressing, it was perfectly fine. It's certainly a far cry better than trying to edit in WMV.

Shiroferetto · Post by **Shiroferetto** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:41 am

BTW, sorry if the thread got hijacked a little bit.

...but honestly? I'm learning a lot just from the back-and-forth opinions. I hope others are too. I still have a lot to read in the guide and lots to learn, but the discussion has given me excellent insight. So thanks everyone for putting in two cents. I'm paying attention.

Although I must say I feel like a dweeb now for editing video in WMV.

That's okay; everyone has to start somewhere, and I'm not afraid of being a newb. SOMEDAY I WILL CONQUOR THE WORLD!!!!

Or at least a dictionary. I'm on a boatload of muscle relaxants... don't blame me if I sound stoned.

Now onto something actually relevant: I must say that Sony Vegas is handling video SOoooooo much better now that I've gone to Lagarith. The previews aren't perfectly smooth (still waiting for my RAM to arrive.....), but a damned sight better than the WMV's were doing. 'course, the more effects you pile on, the stickier the playback gets. No matter... pre-rendering, etc. will do nicely. The point is: My file size is down to manageable proportions, the editing is going more smoothly, playback is highly improved, and I am less of a newbie.

Thanks, guys!

Still reading...

(Wow, the muscle relaxants are really kicking my butt. Somebody make the room stop spinning...)

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:44 pm

mahler wrote:a bunch of semantics that really don't matter....

wow, I really got you going didn't I?

If it's mentioned in the guides (which are possibly rather outdated) then its there for the people who are not total quality whores. And trust me, this site is filled with quality whores - so I tend to give advice that will "tone down" the technical complaints that they may receive from others.

The guides are just guides, they aren't the "holy bible to making videos" everyone has their own way of making videos. If you don't mind losing quality then that's your problem, I prefer not to lose any quality.

However I wasn't arguing the technical merits between the two codecs nor was I comparing them to each other. I was comparing both to Huffyuv, Uncompressed and Lagarith, in which case both codecs lose quality and the other three do not, that was all I was saying.

If you have a bug up your ass about the DV codec and how wonderful it is, then that is your issue.

mahler · Post by **mahler** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:26 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:If it's mentioned in the guides (which are possibly rather outdated) then its there for the people who are not total quality whores.

It's mentioned in the beta guide, which is not totally outdated.

The guides are just guides, they aren't the "holy bible to making videos" everyone has their own way of making videos. If you don't mind losing quality then that's your problem, I prefer not to lose any quality.

I have no problem with you not wanting to lose any quality. It's not all about you.

If you have a bug up your ass about the DV codec and how wonderful it is, then that is your issue.

Calm yourself. I am not claiming DV's superiority to HuffYUV, uncompressed, etc, I just take exception to the idea that it's lumped in with WMV (oh sure, you say you weren't comparing them, but that is the impression some will get). One's an editable codec, the other isn't.

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:23 pm

mahler wrote:
JaddziaDax wrote:If it's mentioned in the guides (which are possibly rather outdated) then its there for the people who are not total quality whores.
It's mentioned in the beta guide, which is not totally outdated.

its there for the people who are NOT quality whores then (or did you miss that part of my post?)

I have no problem with you not wanting to lose any quality. It's not all about you.

it is about me when you are criticizing me for the advice I'm giving. I give the advice I can to help people make the best presentation they can.

If you have a bug up your ass about the DV codec and how wonderful it is, then that is your issue.
Calm yourself. I am not claiming DV's superiority to HuffYUV, uncompressed, etc, I just take exception to the idea that it's lumped in with WMV (oh sure, you say you weren't comparing them, but that is the impression some will get). One's an editable codec, the other isn't.

"Calm yourself"? I didn't realize that "internet debating" consisted of me getting all crazy and excitable O.o perhaps you should read my posts with a more "Ben Stein monotone" next time :/

As for lumping the two together -It's because they are both lossy. I'm not comparing anything else other than that fact. I lump XVID and H.264 into those categories as well (both not made for editing either but that's beside the point, they are both lossy) and I never recommend editing with lossy codecs no matter weather or not they were made for editing. There are two categories I'm working with here... lossy and lossless.

Shiroferetto · Post by **Shiroferetto** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:23 pm

mahler wrote:
JaddziaDax wrote:If it's mentioned in the guides (which are possibly rather outdated) then its there for the people who are not total quality whores.
It's mentioned in the beta guide, which is not totally outdated.

*snip*

Coming from a newbie perspective... I do actually find the recommended beta guide to be somewhat outdated--or at least somewhat confusing. I suppose that's to be expected since the beta guide is 1.5 yrs old now (according to update note).

I'd actually like to see more information for those of us who can't jump right in to being AMV Gods. Note: That's all IMO.

Not that it isn't intensely convenient or thorough--don't get the wrong idea. Most of us, I think, kinda start off the Windows Movie Maker--->Sony Vegas--->Premiere route, and uh, well, I'm in the middle and struggling with the more advanced concepts. That'll take time to learn, but in the meantime...

It seems as if some of the guide is written from one perspective only. That perspective seems to be: "This is the EXACT way to make AMV's, and no deviations will be delt with."

Jesus, I hope someone takes this as constructive criticism.

IMHO, I'd like to see a little more flexibility in the guide. Some of us, for instance, are living on a budget (sorry, I spend my money on food and drugs and gasoline) and can't afford the Adobe suite, and since I refuse to use warez... that means I'm in Sony Vegas (NON-pro) land for a while longer. Will it help me learn the ropes and make nice videos? Yep. But the guide has a huge chunk of Premiere Worship, and other programs seem to be rather neglected.

Yes, for (I'll borrow the term) "quality whores," there may be One and Only One Way to Make a Video, but for those of us who are learning (i.e. those of us for whom the Guide needs to be most helpful), some non-standard issues seem to need to be addressed.

I only aspire to quality whoredom.

Wow. I probably just doused myself in (very expensive) gasoline. If you have a match, stay the fuck away from me, please...

(Obama '08!)

JaddziaDax · Post by **JaddziaDax** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:32 pm

Shiroferetto wrote:that means I'm in Sony Vegas (NON-pro) land for a while longer. Will it help me learn the ropes and make nice videos? Yep. But the guide has a huge chunk of Premiere Worship, and other programs seem to be rather neglected.

this might be of interest to you then :3

and as for footage preparing it's pretty much the same no matter if you are using Windows Movie Maker or Sony Vegas and for the most part any other program.

Using the programs themselves are a whole other issue, but at the same time that is what the help topics are for :3

LivingFlame · Post by **LivingFlame** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:09 am

JaddziaDax wrote:this might be of interest to you then :3

Dang, I want that, nao. o.O
I think I found that extra incentive to start building that new PC I've been planning.

Shiroferetto wrote:...Most of us, I think, kinda start off the Windows Movie Maker--->Sony Vegas--->Premiere route...

Are you indirectly saying that Premiere is better than Vegas? That makes me sad. D:

Ok, back to the land of seriousness. What other methods is it that you want the guide to cover? I had never used any of the programs in the AMVapp (and most of them I hadn't heard of either), but I thought the guide made it pretty easy to understand those apps. But I wasn't new to video editing either, by any means. So what else would you like to see in a guide? (Yes, it's a real question; I'm not trying to sound arrogant, mean, or whatever else that could possibly come off as. o.O )

And I've never noticed any Premiere worship in the Beta guide. Where might that be at?

Shiroferetto · Post by **Shiroferetto** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:25 am

JaddziaDax wrote:
Shiroferetto wrote:that means I'm in Sony Vegas (NON-pro) land for a while longer. Will it help me learn the ropes and make nice videos? Yep. But the guide has a huge chunk of Premiere Worship, and other programs seem to be rather neglected.
this might be of interest to you then :3

and as for footage preparing it's pretty much the same no matter if you are using Windows Movie Maker or Sony Vegas and for the most part any other program.

Using the programs themselves are a whole other issue, but at the same time that is what the help topics are for :3

My, that IS an interesting price. ;D Thanks for the heads-up.

I am, yes, drooling over the Premiere and the financing, but, uh... yeah. Maybe later.

Shiroferetto · Post by **Shiroferetto** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:52 am

LivingFlame wrote:
JaddziaDax wrote:this might be of interest to you then :3
Dang, I want that, nao. o.O
I think I found that extra incentive to start building that new PC I've been planning.

Shiroferetto wrote:...Most of us, I think, kinda start off the Windows Movie Maker--->Sony Vegas--->Premiere route...
Are you indirectly saying that Premiere is better than Vegas? That makes me sad. D:

Ok, back to the land of seriousness. What other methods is it that you want the guide to cover? I had never used any of the programs in the AMVapp (and most of them I hadn't heard of either), but I thought the guide made it pretty easy to understand those apps. But I wasn't new to video editing either, by any means. So what else would you like to see in a guide? (Yes, it's a real question; I'm not trying to sound arrogant, mean, or whatever else that could possibly come off as. o.O )

And I've never noticed any Premiere worship in the Beta guide. Where might that be at?

I'm going to have to get back to you on this one (Don't let me forget.) as I have not finished reading the guide in its entirety.

Note to world: I'm heavily medicated and fatigue easily. What's that got to do with anything? Uh, well, I'm also very right-brained, so explaining things to people in logical fashion is sometimes a bit challenging. *I* know what I'm talking about, but putting it in linear fashion (instead of networked intuitiveness) is like, pulling teeth for me. (But oddly, I'm good at math... intuitively.)

So, I'm going to have to give the guide the twice-over before I can nail down what I mean.