Religion

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guy07
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Religion

Post by guy07 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:56 pm

/me braces for flaming

Ok, so as most of you probably know, I'm an Atheist. I believe you are born, live then die. Just like everything else in this universe. I was raised catholic i guess, but i never really believed any of that stuff. I can remember being 10 and saying "If Jesus was born in a stable in winter ... wouldn't he have died?" lol.
I'm rather interested in hearing what religions you people are part of and what you really believe. (I don't just want to know ABOUT the religion, i want to know what you think about it. Hell, I'd just use wiki if i wanted straight info.)

Having been raised roman catholic, I can honestly say that religion is more or less about convincing people to do good. I mean, the basis of it is good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. I don't really see anything wrong with it ... I mean, technically it's helping society but at the same time I find it really sad when people take it too seriously and some even commit their lives to it. To be completely honest, I do look down on 'god fearing' people. I won't lie. But I'm not going to go too much into detail about that at the risk of getting flogged.

The only religion i really would say is interesting is Taoism. And Taoists in here? :D

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Post by BurningLeaves » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:26 pm

Im undecided on a 'god' figure. In one side its just not practical to believe in an all knowing being, but on the other hand I think people are just too perfect to be chalked up to evolution alone. I believe there was more then likely some type of higher power, but that none of the major religions are even close to being right. Religion was made by man, and anything made by man can be flawed. Religion is used as a way to keep people in line by threatening them with a notion of hell or god. Its a way of giving people hope when there is none, and a way of giving people answers that dont exist.
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guy07
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Post by guy07 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:36 pm

:o we actually have pretty similar views. So what your saying more or less is that
there IS/ARE a god/gods but we haven't found them yet ..? What about the notion that 'god' existed at one point, but then passed away?
I'd have to argue against the humans being perfect though ... there's better evolved species out there then us.

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Ileia
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Post by Ileia » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:49 pm

First off, it's spelled "Religion".


Secondly, while I come from a decidedly Catholic heritage (Irish and Italian) my dad never raised me to be Catholic. Instead, we traveled around to this and that. We ALWAYS went to church of some sort, but it flopped around a lot before landing on Jehovah's Witnesses, the most extreme of all the ones he tried.

I learned the most from them, they certainly have the most intensive training that I've seen yet. We had an entire library of literature. While I don't agree with their beliefs, I did learn a lot. I've read the entire Bible cover to cover four times. Sometimes tedious, sometimes interesting. If you read it yourself and REALLY read it, you learn things that go against what you'd always been taught. Three wise men visited baby Jesus in the stable? NO. They visited him at the family's house later on when he was a small child (Matthew chapter 2, I think, look it up :O). Or like how in one of the books, Isaiah or maybe Psalms, the writer is praising God, who he says is above the "globe" or "sphere" of the earth. Thinking about when the Bible was written, that was WAY before it was proven to be round.

While I thought such findings were neat, they never really affected my religious beliefs. I'm not really sure what I am, but I think that might default me to agnostic. :P
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Post by BurningLeaves » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:52 pm

Well not that were perfect as people. I just mean that our bodies are so thought out and complicated. Our senses, circulatory system, our bones and joints. If any one of them were out of place or missing, our lives would be much more difficult. While evolution might explain that away, it still leaves me with more questions. Such as where did the ability to evolve come from and who put it in us? I have no clue if there was/is a god figure but science hasnt been able to explain it all enough yet to satisfy me. I can buy the 'big bang' theory and I can buy evolution but that still doesnt explain how it all started. Where did the matter come from to begin with and who or what put it there? I just dont buy that something can come from nothing... Though this really has nothing to do with your question or the topic =P
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Post by LantisEscudo » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:38 am

I could use any number of labels to describe my particular set of religious beliefs, but probably the most accurate would be "Agnostic Deist."

I believe that there is or was some "Power," for lack of a better term, that set the universe in motion, after defining the natural laws that govern it (gravity, atomic bonds, etc.), and then he/she/gendered pronoun humans don't use/it/they sat back and let it run. I've heard this described as the Celestial Clockmaker theory, too. Whether they're still around, have left completely, or are still actively involved but unable to be noticed by the universe's occupants is an unknown and really unknowable question.

I was raised in a Roman Catholic family (though one of my grandmothers and her family are very devout Lutherans), so that's really formed the core of my personal moral code, but I have a rather hefty scepticism about organized religion, especially given how much bad stuff has been done in their names (I'll admit, there's been a lot of good, too, but I'm not sure it outweighs the bad). Probably the two bedrocks of what I believe that apply to everyday life are the sixth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew and the quote from Oliver Wendell Holmes, "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

I really don't mind what anyone believes, until it starts affecting other people, either through direct action or by trying to impose those beliefs on others. Then I have a problem with their religion. I hate being the target of an attempted conversion, but I'm perfectly willing to discuss religion or faith if I'm asked about them in an attempt at greater understanding, rather than a recruitment drive.

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Re: Relegion

Post by Yok/0 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:45 am

guy07 wrote:/me braces for flaming
:roll:

Oh There will be flames alright....In Hell! :twisted:

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Post by Otohiko » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:28 am

My brother is a Taoist :o
He's also an overphilosophizing pretentious hypocritical fuck who's made me want to not go into philosophical discussions for a long time now. No, don't get me wrong, I love my brother but he's really way, way too immature for these things, and I think he's at risk of getting into a "picked up a book and read it about himself" situation far too often.

Before you get religious, you need to get informed. Blind faith leads nowhere. You have to experience the world and learn the world as deeply and sharply as possible, with good-willing guides at your side. Only then can you start philosophizing to any depth. The reverse, which is no better, is overexperimentation and overconfidence that leads to arrogant blindness to what things are actually like. You don't gain deep knowledge about anything by either trusting every word you hear, or trusting everything that's in your own head.


Myself, precisely these questions have been bothering me lately, and I've found a perfectly good way of dealing with them. I used to be somewhere in the "Agnostic" or "Deist" category, too, but I was never comfortable with that. There was too many wrong assumptions going on around me, and I certainly consider myself to be spiritually-developed and, essentially, religious. I've recently decided to become a Quaker. Seriously.

I've gone to church for a large part of my life - back in Russia, my dad worked for an American protestant church and eventually qualified as a pastor, and even preached for some time. Since then he has become disillusioned with organized religion, but he maintains a lot of the spirituality, and that has definitely influenced me. I've always considered myself a "true Christian", in the sense that I believe that through my contact with Christianity, I have picked out a gist of something that doesn't quite fit in with many of the influences on the Gospels, a philosophy that I believe came out of a historical Christ figure, who I believe existed. I took that and added many other influences, from Buddhist and even Muslim sources, to Greek philosophy, to a heavy doze of modern science and post-modern thinking, to rock musicians and abstract artists, and there we have it. I'm foremost a humanist, I believe in the sacredness of human life (along with its absurdity and insignificance - there's an irony for you!), the material need for goodwill and forgiveness, and the value of good work and clear conscience as a means for itself. I have a very clear concept of God, and it's nothing like the judaeo-christian God. People have often called me an Atheist, but I'm not even close to that. It's just that my God doesn't live in a church and doesn't answer to prayers, let alone hates gays and kills kittens to punish people for masturbation :roll:

I then went to a Catholic high school, and that honestly pushed me even more from all manner of normal denominations and creeds - I'd sit there at masses and wish the priest and everyone else would shut the fuck up and just listen for a second, if they wanted a real glimpse of God.

Well, basically that's what Quakers do.

So, I consider myself a recently-convinced Quaker, albeit having held Quaker beliefs for quite some time now. Among good features of Quakers - lack of creed, meaning that you don't have to espouse any given set of beliefs or scriptures, instead using what's out there as guide - but never before the Inner Light, which is the notion that God is present and available directly to any individual without mediation, special training or investment - besides attention; the belief in fundamental equality of all men and women (before god and before each other); the belief in always telling truth, before yourself first of all; the rejection of violence as a first resort or a good resort in anything, and the idea that harmony between people and peace can be accomplished through hard work by everyone involved. Basically, you make your own peace with God and you work with other people, for other people.

Otherwise I have a very critical view of scriptures or any dogma at all, I take issue with ideas of God as an intelligent being, life after death or reincarnation (although I do have my own ideas in regard to that), I don't believe in morals - but I do find a lot of what people ascribe to morality to be basically common-sense if you hold a humanist stance - you don't NOT kill or steal because God said "thou shalt not!", you don't do it because you know that if you want to uphold all the good things that the enlightened humanity had, gained or developed, and so ensure the progress and survival of the species, you don't do things that destroy other people or compromise the society. My most basic belief, perhaps, is that everything in the world comes with a price, and we have an obligation to pay our own tab. And while I don't believe in afterlife, I do believe that somehow, somewhere, if we don't pay and someone else has to pay for us - it will be counted, and it will come back to you or yours with interest, and worse - with the ill will and suffering of those who had to pay for us. I've had extremely sharp experiences of this personally that I don't want to get into.

I don't have any issue or discomfort with the natural unknowns, or with mortality (as my favorite singer Yuri Shevchuk eloquently put it, "I won't know how to live, if death suddenly becomes impossible..."). It's really not about that. It's not about how huge or awesome God is. It's about realizing the limits of your condition, and what you can accomplish within these. And in my view it's very little, but it's very important to do it. And I do mean DO it.
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

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Post by NS » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:34 am

I was raised Christian, got confirmed, all that jazz..but the whole time never really believed in it. I'm atheist and agnostic. While I believe that there is no way we are able to know.... I'm leaning more towards us dying and then nothing happens. I don't mind people who are religious. What I mind are the people who tell me that because I don't believe i'm not a real person. I got in a fight with a kid at school last year. Kicked his catholic ass for being such a prick. I don't need to hear about how you're a better person because you believe in some all mighty creator who may not even exist :/.

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Brad
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Post by Brad » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:42 am

I'm not relegious.
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