AMVs and Funimation's Copyright enforcment comments

[Knowname]

more importantly are you saying this country's (...USA... I'm not assuming team CANADIA is from the USA) independance is based upon a grudge... wait it is huh??

You've had a long week?? The week just STARTED!

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Are you serious?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like saying anytime music is being played in public places/gatherings there should be fee's.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is exactly how it works... Most large (and even mid size) con have been paying for years fees to the music association (There is one association you pay it to for all music rights, I can't remember the exact name in the USA, and it’s SOCAN in Canada) for right to play music at the con (includes dances, AMVs, Karaoke, etc). AND YES, there are fees for event that use music! This includes exhibitions, conventions, dances (Ask a DJ and he'll tell you) and pretty much anything. Even Radio Stations pay licensing fees.

In one sense that is kind of in the con's favor as the AMVs are then covered for the music portion at the con anyways...

Vlad

[EvaFan]

Well I suppose if its a means for escaping legality concerns then paying it is worth it but even so its not like the music is being distributed for later use. If anything they would hear it and want to buy it to hear again later. I dunno, I just can't help but think greed falls into it somewhere and that has always bothered me.

[OropherZero]

That's really interesting, are you able to provide approximate $$$ figures for the average music fee payout?

[godix]

It's kinda beside the point, but you guys need to keep in mind that before records became common there was no other way to make money as a musician other than performance fees or selling sheet music (obviously sheet music doesn't apply to us, but look up guitar tab sites to see a fandom that is persecuted over it). The history behind paying artists to play their music is far far older than the RIAA model we're used to now. Many, including myself to some degree, think things should return more to that model with CDs being viewed as more promotion than a large revenue source. Although, except for the uber-stars, CDs aren't the way most musicians make money even now, which is why there are many many musicians that encourage distribution of their music on the net. By all reports Evanescence liked AMVs, it was the label who threw a fit. It's probably not a coincidence that Evanescence probably didn't make much money from CD sales while the label did.

Anyway, point is, it isn't unusual that cons would pay a blanket fee to cover all music at their events (which is how I believe it's done, very convenient really). It's not wrong that the con should have to do so. In fact it's probably exactly the way musicians should make money. It's also a boon to our hobby since it pretty much ensures there will never be a major legal issue over the music part of AMVs being shown at cons. Which means the only real legal threat to AMVs at cons would come from the anime companies, which is what this topic was originally was about. As far as that goes, you can parse his words if you want, but I consider it a pretty un-equivocal statement that they're not going to try cracking down on AMVs. I am a cynical bastard, but the only way I could read anything bad into his statement is the slim possibility that he might be lying. I don't think he was, I haven't seen any indication of that.

By the way, what he meant by 'direct' and 'indirect' infringement is that AMVs directly use the source material while doujinshi, cosplay, fanfic, etc. use the ideas, story, or character design but don't actually use the source itself. As for the 'sate' comment, he meant some things provide the full experience of the anime so the audience of those things wouldn't actually go out and buy the anime while others provide, basically, a teaser of the anime and can cause the audience to go out and buy the anime to get the full experience. Clearly AMVs are teasers, while things like full episodes hosted on the tube would sate the audience, and he's just acknowledging that difference. Come on trythil, you aren't dumb. You know he was trying to get across ideas rather than a legal brief. Most people can easily understand his meanings even if he didn't use the correct legal terms.

Long and short of it, the org may or may not die from a cease and desist someday, but even if it does the hobby itself will probably continue on in AMV contests.

[Knowname]

never thought of it that way (and yes, I did mean to put a sad face there... fear of god-ix-)

[Zarxrax]

Does anyone know if any artists ever actually see any money from the fees that cons pay? I'm guessing that they don't.

[Bauzi]

Interresting.

The basic thinking going into fan videos is thus: if it whets the audience's appetite, we'll leave it alone. But if it sates the audience's appetite, it needs to come down. Does that make sense?

So... YouTube-comments like "What's the name of the show?", "OMG must watch this anime O_O Tell me it's name!!!"... got some worth today, lol!

Doesn't that eliminate a huge class of commentary? What about parodies or satires? If you saw a FUNimation show, thought it sucked, and wanted to make an AMV that expressed just how much you thought it sucked, what then? And how does that jive with fair use?

Reminds me of an amv that might fall into this category:

It´s not a bad amv, but it definatly makes the anime look bad imo.

@Eva:

Are you serious?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like saying anytime music is being played in public places/gatherings there should be fee's.

Actually... yes it's the law. If you drive your car and play loud music... in theory you would have to pay a fee if other people on the street hears your song. It might be a too extreme example (and therefor it might be wrong), but basically... yes that's how it goes.

Especially a organisation in Germany (the GEMA) is a very greedy group of fee-bastards They would steal your pants if they could ^^

[guardiansoulblade]

I'm happy Funimation isn't going after AMV makers, and I'm happy they seem to understand that we, for the most part, buy all our footage. And that makes them happy 'cause we support them. Unlike Square Enix, who has been removing AMVs lakely from UTube.

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Does anyone know if any artists ever actually see any money from the fees that cons pay? I'm guessing that they don't.

According to SOCAN (IN Canada), something like 85% of all fees collected went to the artists. Since SOCAN is a non profit society, it would probably not be too hard to find out where their revenues go, but then again anything can always be hidden in red tape if need be... I can’t comment about the American counterpart as I’ve never had to deal with them.

Basically, for up here, the fees are actually quite reasonable and seem fair as I have dealt with them for the local cone here...


Vlad