TheAX AMV Contest 2009 Finalists are...

[Radical_Yue]

Quick question with all the previous bitching aside.

With the small amount of entries why did Castor Troy's DBZ video get cut and Haragen Viper's "Digital Phenomenon" videos get cut?

I'd really like to know considering Castor's DBZ video is incredibly well done even though it has an overused source and while Digital Phenomenon does have a few technical issues such as bad ARs and the like, (it's not like that stopped other entries from getting in) it's still a solid video and about 200% better than half the other entries.


So yeah, any reason some videos were cut and others were let in? Or are things a tad bit on the biased side when it comes to the video judging?

[XStylus]

Quick question with all the previous bitching aside.

With the small amount of entries why did Castor Troy's DBZ video get cut and Haragen Viper's "Digital Phenomenon" videos get cut?

I'd really like to know considering Castor's DBZ video is incredibly well done even though it has an overused source and while Digital Phenomenon does have a few technical issues such as bad ARs and the like, (it's not like that stopped other entries from getting in) it's still a solid video and about 200% better than half the other entries.

So yeah, any reason some videos were cut and others were let in? Or are things a tad bit on the biased side when it comes to the video judging?

What category were they in? Action? That category and drama got the overwhelming lion's share of vids, so there was no shortage in those categories. In those cases, it simply comes down to numbers. As was explained in previous posts, vids are graded on a 1 to 5 point scale in the categories of "Fun", "Concept", and "Technical", plus an optional bonus point if the vid inspired a desire to watch/rewatch the anime. A video with bad aspect ratios will get trashed in technical, even if it was the most epic vid ever made. If the flaw is distracting enough, it'd conceivably affect the "Fun" score too. As for Castor's DBZ vid, again, it comes down to numbers. He might've fallen just short of the cut. Also, the panel of judges is quite large enough to mitigate any particular judge's bias, if any.

[Kratza]

AMTV had a grand total of 8 submissions.

That being said, if you only got 8 entries for 7 slots, is it worth it to keep the category going?

That's a decision Michael will have to make. I loved the idea of the category personally, as I love trance-like vids like Euphoria and practically anything Nostromo made, which is kinda-sorta the inspiration for the category IIRC. However, people obviously haven't stepped up, which is sad.

Walking to the parking garage with a friend following the contest, I questioned myself as to whether or not my AMV would've been a finalist had it been submitted under the "AMTV" category, but the characteristics and other qualities commonly associated with AMTV (dance/electronica music; heavy usage of visual effects, multiple anime series/compilations) kept me from going with this back when I sent in the entry...Instead, I classified my AMV as an "Action" Vid. It was edited entirely in After Effects and included a lot of subtle and time-consuming work, but it still didn't have the look of your typical AMTV entry.

From a technical standpoint, its feats were also flaws (when compared to something taken from a DVD source), since I was scaling 256x384 native footage to 640x960 before cropping...As a result, it looked rough around the edges in parts. That's what happens when you attempt to be the first (I think) to make a competitive AMV out of a DS game.

I was hoping it could've been screened during the pre-show (all I honestly cared about was exposing the game, The World Ends With You, to more people), but what's done is done...I'm already hard at work on some videos for next year, and fully intend to help "raise the bar" with the rest of you.

[Radical_Yue]

Quick question with all the previous bitching aside.

With the small amount of entries why did Castor Troy's DBZ video get cut and Haragen Viper's "Digital Phenomenon" videos get cut?

I'd really like to know considering Castor's DBZ video is incredibly well done even though it has an overused source and while Digital Phenomenon does have a few technical issues such as bad ARs and the like, (it's not like that stopped other entries from getting in) it's still a solid video and about 200% better than half the other entries.

So yeah, any reason some videos were cut and others were let in? Or are things a tad bit on the biased side when it comes to the video judging?

What category were they in? Action? That category and drama got the overwhelming lion's share of vids, so there was no shortage in those categories. In those cases, it simply comes down to numbers. As was explained in previous posts, vids are graded on a 1 to 5 point scale in the categories of "Fun", "Concept", and "Technical", plus an optional bonus point if the vid inspired a desire to watch/rewatch the anime. A video with bad aspect ratios will get trashed in technical, no matter how good it is. If the flaw is distracting enough, it'd conceivably affect the "Fun" score too. As for Castor's DBZ vid, again, it comes down to numbers. He might've fallen just short of the cut. Also, the panel of judges is also quite large enough to mitigate any particular judge's bias, if any.

That told me...nothing :/

These are two videos that didn't have any technical flaws with the exception of a couple bad ARs that were in Haragen's...and Haragen entered into pro...and considering how many entries there were...how the fuck did he get cut when his entry was amazing compared to some of the others? I mean really?

Even if it comes down to numbers, I don't see why two well edited videos would get cut :/
The only thing I can see is a bias towards the sources which were used, Dragon Ball Z and Digimon. Other than that, they were fun videos, the concept was solid and I refuse to repeat the tech side again in this post.

I've been told several times I may seem arrogant while posting about all this, but please just understand, I'm very passionate about AMVs and I honestly believe a contest this large with so many attendees deserves a good showing. I just don't understand why some of the better videos are being cut and not given any specific reasons.
Hell, if anything, do me a personal favor, any way you can tell me why just these two videos got cut? It can't be that hard :/

[outlawed]

I love AX. No matter how many editors get mad and try to make the community give up on it or make it irrelevant it always offers the best post-con entertainment.

Rest assured I have read most of this thread and will probably post quite a few thoughts and suggestions that may help all parties involved. That said guys... How could they NOT put Death Note Rhapsody in that category. Just look how much AX drama is unfolding as a result !!

Aspect Ration errors: If the entry is using mixed sources and doesn't handle them properly than that is the fault of the editor. If the entry was played back wrong that is the fault of the AX AMV staff. There are two ways to handle that type of issue. Either convert or DQ the video if the editor messed it up. Those of you who have dealt with me for ACen know my solution. No mercy! If I say 48 kHz audio and you send me 44.1 then I WILL DQ you unless you fix it. Keep in mind that also makes some people mad. One of the reasons I'm hardcore about formatting with the entrants is because down the assembly line it makes things much easier on us for converting and displaying entries. Other contests that do not have such restrictive formatting requirements make things easier on the submitter but sometimes unavoidable issues which cannot be resolved might crop up. I doubt AX AMV staff have as much control over the display options I have at ACen (it being a much smaller room we use and the convention as a whole). Just make certain if you blame editors for aspect ratio issues that the problem was actually on their end and NOT on the part of AX AMV staff. Until staff chimes in I wouldn't hold the editor accountable.

Now if you are talking about 4:3 sources mixed with 16:9 squished sources in the same AMV then by all means flame away.


Pwolf,

I'm going to guess one of the continuing factors on the "decisions" from recent years was the "Wedding Rings is not an AMV" fiasco?

[Rider4Z]

Even if it comes down to numbers, I don't see why two well edited videos would get cut :/
The only thing I can see is a bias towards the sources which were used, Dragon Ball Z and Digimon. Other than that, they were fun videos, the concept was solid and I refuse to repeat the tech side again in this post.

whatever the reason they didn't make the finals, i'm certain it wasn't because of the series. Digimon made the AmTV finals in 07 (hagaren).

DBZ is obviously a tougher anime to pull into the finals. i don't know the reason, but castor knows the risk of entering the Z just as much as i do. and i plan on entering one myself for next year, altho i understand my slim chance of getting it in. dragonball z DEMANDS originality... so will see....

i'm still waiting castor

[Pwolf]

This is a stretch, but have you considered condensing it? Shortening a 7:30 video to 7:00 would require a less than 7% speed increase, hardly noticeable (particularly by the general audience voting for it) if you adjust the pitch on the song. I used a similar technique to get "Signal to Noise" under the seven-minute limit, just for AX.

I tried to cut it but cuting out 30 seconds is way too much without ruining the entire thing. as for changing the speed? no way, that's worse then cutting it IMO.

A video in an AMV contest should be technically sound as well as well edited. Since AMV contests don't have awards for the technical stuff, one should expect that the pre-judging would weed out the videos that don't meet a certain standard. The fact that the AMV coordinator(s) allowed videos with obvious technical and editing errors tells me that they do not care about the standards or the presentation of the video.

Okay, I know you've judged/ran an AMV competition before, and that comment tells me that the quality and number of submissions each of your categories received is drastically different than ours.

I'll take that as sarcasm since I have not judged or ran a contest before. I want to so I can hopefully change how these things are run. I don't care if 3 videos out 10 in the drama category are the only good ones, if there are only 3 videos that I can say are both good and technically sound, then I would only show 3.

Bottom line, where ya'll at? Where's all these killer submissions I hear being entered at AWA, Otakon, and elsewhere? The contest is running nearly trouble free now, so what more must be done? (Methinks the "troll" rules of other cons play a part, but not this much.)

I recommend that the lot of you stop complaining and start editing. Us judges aren't idiots, and we know a well made vid when we see it. What you saw was the best we got. If you're unhappy with it, then you're unhappy with yourselves.

As Steve Jobs says, "Real artists ship." Kudos to the artists who did, and a pox on those who are complaining.

Troy, as mentioned before, I had a video for AX I intended to submit but the coordinator wouldn't allow it. It's not my fault I cannot submit "killer" submissions. If the contest is having such a hard time with quality submissions, then it needs to lighten up on it's rules in the future.

I'm going to guess one of the continuing factors on the "decisions" from recent years was the "Wedding Rings is not an AMV" fiasco?

That was indeed one of the reasons...


Overall, my major gripe here is that I feel like editors are getting way too lazy and amv contests are looking more and more like amateur slide shows. If the contest coordinators would step up to the plate and require stricter technical guidelines, we would have a better looking show. If you have to cut half your entries, then do it. It would force people to fix their shit. I'm tired of sitting at a contest and watching these obvious errors show up on screen, it's embarrassing to be honest.


Pwolf

[The Wired Knight]

To some extent I agree with PWOLF. Though opinion of AMVs varies glaring technical difficultires or editing mistakes are practically insulting to the contest. Comedy a few years ago at AX I remember had a video in it that still had bloody subtitles left in. That should be grounds for immediate disssqualification. I understand that if you have a small number of entries then it is tougher to disqualify things however in certain cases I think exceptions need to be made.

Troy is right that Michael has done an astounding job fixing AX's AMV contest. It runs smoother and is a hell of a lot better than it used to be. However it is still having a nightmare of a time being a draw to other editors for submissions. While I do agree that bias against AX is certainly a factor here I also think AX needs to tighten its standards for AMV submissions in addition to readjusting its catagories to better suit current catagories. I've considered not sending a few of my videos simply because it doesn't fit well in any of the pre-existin ones.

As far as Pro goes, in lieu of 8 entires I think it's time to completely reevaulate the necessity of this catagory. I've always found the audience voting on it to be flawed anywya per the previous discussion. You might get more entires now that the details have ben revealed but we're talking people taht will enter only because they feel they have a better shot at getting in in lieu of the small amount of competition. This will most likely put that catagory i neven worse light. Upbeat is a better catagory, sure it's not rewarding technical like AMTV was meant to, but considering how the voting goes and the small number of entries is it really wise to create such a small catagory with such a predictable outcome due to narrow criteria?

[milkmandan]

These are two videos that didn't have any technical flaws with the exception of a couple bad ARs that were in Haragen's...and Haragen entered into pro...and considering how many entries there were...how the fuck did he get cut when his entry was amazing compared to some of the others? I mean really?

i am pretty sure this isn't the reason but sometimes videos get cut due to song use or footage used. (eg. cutting AMVs with Evanescence songs, in light of getting sued).
Sometimes the Guests of Honors at an cons are very picky about these types of things, and if their management/representation is picky they can shut down us down for it. As we all know, AX has the MOST ties with industry than any other convention in north america. I wouldn't be surprised if we had to cut videos out in hopes to not piss off our sponsors.
In the end, Anime Expo is still an Anime Convention, not an AMV convention, we cater to Anime and our Guests of Honors first, not AMVs.
Again this most likely isn't the reason but I'd like to throw that out there.

[Castor Troy]

Even if it comes down to numbers, I don't see why two well edited videos would get cut :/
The only thing I can see is a bias towards the sources which were used, Dragon Ball Z and Digimon. Other than that, they were fun videos, the concept was solid and I refuse to repeat the tech side again in this post.

whatever the reason they didn't make the finals, i'm certain it wasn't because of the series. Digimon made the AmTV finals in 07 (hagaren).

DBZ is obviously a tougher anime to pull into the finals. i don't know the reason, but castor knows the risk of entering the Z just as much as i do. and i plan on entering one myself for next year, altho i understand my slim chance of getting it in. dragonball z DEMANDS originality... so will see....

i'm still waiting castor

I obviously knew the risk of entering an "old school" DBZ video in the effects laden world we live in today. This was the kind of video I would have made in 1999 when I first started making videos. Since I really didn't have much to enter this year with work and VG5, it was pretty much all I can send. I really wanted to see if I could make the contest finals at cons without resorting to effects, like I usually do. I was REALLY surprised that it made the acen finals, so it gave me a bit of confidence that I could have made it into AX and Otakon, which sadly didn't happen. I wasn't going to AX anyways, so it really wasn't a huge loss for me.

I obviously haven't seen the AX contest this year and don't really plan on watching many of the videos except the winners, so I can't really say if my DBZ video deserved to be there or not.