XML Usage

[Revenant Death]

It seems as if the entire a-m-v.org site is based upon SQL databases...however there is a far better method, via the use of XML. Granted specific user login data should still be stored in a SQL database, however pretty much everything else can just be stored in XML files, which are generally much faster and use much less system resources.

The trick is, when someone runs a SQL database search via PHP, the processing done for that search is all server side, which uses up an incredible level of system resources with hundreds of people running simultaneous searches, but using the XML method in conjunction with javascript, that processing can all be done client side.

Granted that does generally mean an increase in bandwidth usage, but then server side processing is *MUCH* more expensive than bandwidth...in fact that's the reason many providers offer "unlimited bandwidth" but then suddenly pull the plug later and send you a big bill if you try and make good on it. They really do have "unlimited bandwidth", it's just they don't have unlimited processing power.

[Panky]

Fact is this isn't a big-resources consuming site. You can notice by going around the forum, or searching something in the ORG web, it all works pretty smooth. Biggest thing you could do to lag the server is running a super search, IMO, and still, I'm pretty sure that doing even 100 mysql queries for it to the DB per minute won't even lag it.

Look, if you were to search for 'all' in the super search, it would take up to 8 seconds to query. Considering the big amount of entries (like 146000), and the complexity of the query itself, I would say that makes it pretty quick. And that's even when it is running the forum, comments and opinion system, and a few other options at the main site. Given the amount of people, it doesn't look like a problem for now. And while I'm not used to XML files nor querying with javascript, don't you think it would be a hassle to the browser with so much information and with the possibility of using a dedicated server with a back-end language for that?

And the "unlimited bandwidth" is also a myth, try running a youtube-like web on one of those cheap unlimited servers, and most of they will probably kick you of there if you start using a big amount of it. It's just appeal for selling the product off, even if it's not true.

[Revenant Death]

Well, I don't claim to know anything about this site's exact setup and configuration, I'm mainly going by my own servers/sites and experience. And from my experience these cookie cutter web boards alone are drastic resource hogs and grossly inefficient...apparently they're actually designed that way on purpose, in order to eat up as much bandwidth and processing power as they can in order to make hosts more money...which is one of the reasons why so many hosting providers try and push them on their clients...along with a number of other "cookie cutter" solutions.

Of course building an entire web board from scratch certainly is no small undertaking, neither would be retrofitting the current site to work with XML and so forth, certainly it wouldn't be an "overnight" kind of deal, but something to consider.

If I was running this site I think the first thing I'd do though would be to incorporate some minimal Google ad-sense banners into the forum instead of just the main site, that would help bring in a lot of revenue. The Google ads are actually worthwhile too in that they always pertain to the general subject of the site. In my experience I've found the biggest money makers with Google ads to be those related to gaming, especially online gaming, people just love clicking on those ads.

These are all just ideas though, I'm not necessarily suggesting that they all be implemented...and like *RIGHT NOW*...or else! LOL It's just some stuff to consider.

[verlocs]

It seems as if the entire a-m-v.org site is based upon SQL databases...however there is a far better method, via the use of XML. Granted specific user login data should still be stored in a SQL database, however pretty much everything else can just be stored in XML files, which are generally much faster and use much less system resources.

The trick is, when someone runs a SQL database search via PHP, the processing done for that search is all server side, which uses up an incredible level of system resources with hundreds of people running simultaneous searches, but using the XML method in conjunction with javascript, that processing can all be done client side.

Granted that does generally mean an increase in bandwidth usage, but then server side processing is *MUCH* more expensive than bandwidth...in fact that's the reason many providers offer "unlimited bandwidth" but then suddenly pull the plug later and send you a big bill if you try and make good on it. They really do have "unlimited bandwidth", it's just they don't have unlimited processing power.

Ok, um...

Firstly, a credentials statement. I have a batchelor's degree in computer sciences from Iowa State University. I work as a java/tomcat/database administrator for a large company and get paid to know this answer.

That's crazy talk.

XML is a data interchange format. It is a way of encoding information for ready conversion and reuse between systems. It is NOT, and never will be, a replacement for a relational database. Why?

1. The flat out most obvious reason is that it is just a format of data storage. It has no mechanism to traverse itself. Not only that, the worker code that does exist to traverse xml in various languages are hideously inefficient.

2. As a means of data storage it is also very inefficient. XML is an interchange format; it cannot efficiently link data in structures other then trees, and the markup consumes substantial amounts of space.


I'm gonna guess OP that you're a freshman. Got some crazy stupid ideas in your head from some professor who's preaching that xQuery is the end-all-be-all of data storage and someday everyone will realize it. Got a message, it's not. Go back to whoever told you whatever they told you and say to their face they're messed up in the head.

[Revenant Death]

Ok, um...

Firstly, a credentials statement. I have a batchelor's degree in computer sciences from Iowa State University. I work as a java/tomcat/database administrator for a large company and get paid to know this answer.

That's crazy talk.

XML is a data interchange format. It is a way of encoding information for ready conversion and reuse between systems. It is NOT, and never will be, a replacement for a relational database. Why?

1. The flat out most obvious reason is that it is just a format of data storage. It has no mechanism to traverse itself. Not only that, the worker code that does exist to traverse xml in various languages are hideously inefficient.

2. As a means of data storage it is also very inefficient. XML is an interchange format; it cannot efficiently link data in structures other then trees, and the markup consumes substantial amounts of space.


I'm gonna guess OP that you're a freshman. Got some crazy stupid ideas in your head from some professor who's preaching that xQuery is the end-all-be-all of data storage and someday everyone will realize it. Got a message, it's not. Go back to whoever told you whatever they told you and say to their face they're messed up in the head.

LOL, college flunkies are always cute...not all that bright though, they really have a hard time "thinking outside the box" so to speak...and of course they're always quick to anger when their preconceived notions are turned around on them. Spoon fed education at its finest, you think what you're told, but you never really bother to try and push forward.

If you really want to get into a pissing contest though, allow me to abruptly end you...my last client...was a five time Emmy award winning production company. Hell, I've even created stand alone Flash applications for the White House Conference On Cooperative Conservation. Billboards...websites...programs...you name it, I'm an expert in it...and not some college flunkie like yourself. I understand technology to a point where there are no limitations, I can make anything do pretty much whatever I like...and while I'm sure for someone of your..."height", the prospect of using XML in place of a SQL database doesn't make any sense at all, well, it's only because you lack the skills necessary to use it that way...of course in your case I highly doubt you even understand the core difference between the two forms.

SQL is used for storing data that's to be manipulated, XML is for storing straight data that generally won't. SQL is generally very good when it comes to handling incredibly large, massive amounts of data, that need to be continually accessed, searched through, and altered. But uh...trick of it is...a web board...yeah not so much. Even with the ability to edit posts there's no real need for SQL to be used with such a form...unless you really just want to go out of your way and waste system resources.

The point here that you're missing, that was already pointed out, is that it's a matter of moving the processing. Using PHP and SQL...that's server side. Do you know what that is? Do you know what "server side processing" is? Well, ASSuming you do, you should know that it's generally *NOT* what you want to do with making websites, not unless you're really interested in costing yourself a whole shit load of money in hosting fees.

Now, I'll admit that the form certainly isn't for amateurs and college flunkies like yourself, you likely wouldn't even know where to begin to be perfectly blunt. I mean you think a SQL database is an absolute requirement for a web board, which clearly shows a definite lack of understanding about what a database even is.

Essentially it's like you're trying to use dynamite to start a fire. I guess if that's the only way you were taught, then that's the only way you know how to do it...er...well I guess you don't actually even know that much, not if you're the one whose in charge of this site, given that this is a cookie cutter web board...ie *SOMEONE ELSE* coded it. I'm bettin though that's about the extent of your "technical knowledge"...using prebuilt, cookie cutter forms that *SOMEONE ELSE* coded and then just slopping them all together haphazardly.

*sigh*

It really is so typical though...reminds me of the goobers who run around trying to claim that Flash is inherently more bloated than HTML...LOL...boy I never get tired of that one. ^__^

Since you're obviously not interested in knowing how it can be done, well...I guess I won't bother trying to explain it to you...after all, you think you know it all, eh flunkie?

He, he, he...the truly sad thing about this kid is that there's not exactly some shortage of material on the grid about how you can use XML in place of SQL, where, why, how, etc, etc, etc...hell there's like entire fucking websites SOLELY DEVOTED to the subject! LOL

[verlocs]

hell there's like entire websites SOLELY DEVOTED to the subject!

Then go preach there.

If you've got a project to hawk let's see the sourceforge link.

[Revenant Death]

hell there's like entire websites SOLELY DEVOTED to the subject!

Then go preach there.

If you've got a project to hawk let's see the sourceforge link.

I'm not looking to fix your site for you, I'm only offering suggestions, if you haven't the will, technical understanding and want to act on them...then don't. But simply saying that it's "not possible" using your own limitations just makes you look foolish.

Not to mention it makes the college you went to look pretty backwards at that, seeing as how bridging the two forms, XML and SQL is one of the most talked about and sought after web technologies to date...along with other combinations at that. Every form has its strengths and its weaknesses, knowing how to combine multiple forms together, utilizing each individual strength together to overcome the individual weaknesses is where web technology is headed...further and further each day. It's the whole basis behind AJAX and other "newer" web technologies.

My own preferred mix at present is what I call LAMP FX, which is basically a Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP backend with a Flash and XML front end...although here lately I've been using more javascript and HTML than Flash (Actionscript)...it's not as good as Flash in most cases, certainly not in the cross compatibility range, but it is a lot easier to work with in most cases.

[Vivaldi]

LOL, college flunkies are always cute...not all that bright though, they really have a hard time "thinking outside the box" so to speak...and of course they're always quick to anger when their preconceived notions are turned around on them. Spoon fed education at its finest, you think what you're told, but you never really bother to try and push forward.

If you really want to get into a pissing contest though, allow me to abruptly end you...my last client...was a five time Emmy award winning production company. Hell, I've even created stand alone Flash applications for the White House Conference On Cooperative Conservation. Billboards...websites...programs...you name it, I'm an expert in it...and not some college flunkie like yourself. I understand technology to a point where there are no limitations, I can make anything do pretty much whatever I like...and while I'm sure for someone of your..."height", the prospect of using XML in place of a SQL database doesn't make any sense at all, well, it's only because you lack the skills necessary to use it that way...of course in your case I highly doubt you even understand the core difference between the two forms.

SQL is used for storing data that's to be manipulated, XML is for storing straight data that generally won't. SQL is generally very good when it comes to handling incredibly large, massive amounts of data, that need to be continually accessed, searched through, and altered. But uh...trick of it is...a web board...yeah not so much. Even with the ability to edit posts there's no real need for SQL to be used with such a form...unless you really just want to go out of your way and waste system resources.

The point here that you're missing, that was already pointed out, is that it's a matter of moving the processing. Using PHP and SQL...that's server side. Do you know what that is? Do you know what "server side processing" is? Well, ASSuming you do, you should know that it's generally *NOT* what you want to do with making websites, not unless you're really interested in costing yourself a whole shit load of money in hosting fees.

Now, I'll admit that the form certainly isn't for amateurs and college flunkies like yourself, you likely wouldn't even know where to begin to be perfectly blunt. I mean you think a SQL database is an absolute requirement for a web board, which clearly shows a definite lack of understanding about what a database even is.

Essentially it's like you're trying to use dynamite to start a fire. I guess if that's the only way you were taught, then that's the only way you know how to do it...er...well I guess you don't actually even know that much, not if you're the one whose in charge of this site, given that this is a cookie cutter web board...ie *SOMEONE ELSE* coded it. I'm bettin though that's about the extent of your "technical knowledge"...using prebuilt, cookie cutter forms that *SOMEONE ELSE* coded and then just slopping them all together haphazardly.

*sigh*

It really is so typical though...reminds me of the goobers who run around trying to claim that Flash is inherently more bloated than HTML...LOL...boy I never get tired of that one. ^__^

Since you're obviously not interested in knowing how it can be done, well...I guess I won't bother trying to explain it to you...after all, you think you know it all, eh flunkie?

He, he, he...the truly sad thing about this kid is that there's not exactly some shortage of material on the grid about how you can use XML in place of SQL, where, why, how, etc, etc, etc...hell there's like entire fucking websites SOLELY DEVOTED to the subject! LOL

Jesus Christ shut the fuck up.

I don't care who you've worked for, I don't care what you think your abilities are and I wouldn't care if you invented the motherfucking internet. It doesn't enable you to go around and throw pissy little temper tantrums like a pathetic dipshit. Get the fuck out unless you can code your way out of the need for a shred of human dignity you miserable little anal flake. Ignorant kids like you shouldn't even open their mouths if they don't have the self-restraint to control the verbal diarrhea spewing from it.

[Revenant Death]

*pissy little temper tantrum*

*nods*

[Vivaldi]

*pissy little temper tantrum*

*nods*

Tu quoque

Ignoratio elenchi