Piracy promotes purchasing, especially amongst video editors

[xPiikanyaa]

I find what you say to be true because I watched Fruits Basket and Naruto online and I know Find myself the owner of the fruits basket box set and I'm currently trying to get all the naruto ones

Same with me, if you replace Naruto with Lucky Star.

I don't think that pirated anime promotes buying since I never buy any anime.

Well, I guess it depends on the person.

[Sukunai]

Only flaw in this post is this 'usenet and other newsgroups aren't exactly an easy place for your average stupid internet user'.

Hmm either you need to start admitting I'm fairly smart (but I don't need you to), or you're wrong (I think over all you are), because the idea I am smart would have my computer guru buddy laughing his ass off.

It takes no brains to browse a newsindexer. They are no different than torrent sites. It takes no brains to install Quickpar, and once you are told 'that fixes yer broken files', that's about the size of it. It takes no brains to install newsleecher. And all you need to know is, 'that gets yer files'. And it takes no brains to know that Astraweb and Giganews own the scene. If you are using someone else, you likely were forced.

It takes a lot more skill to find shitty poor performing torrent links on Google than it does files in newsgroups.
And really, all a person needs to do to learn about newsgroups, is to just ask, hey how does a person use newsgroups?
Granted sites like this and many others will steadfastedly refuse to SHOW people how to download and more specifically from where. Makes sense.
But it takes a special kind of stupid to be unable to find even a single place online where a person can ask that question

Hey movies music games whatever, it's all the same process eh. Downloading is downloading. It's not done differently.
My Astraweb account makes the ENTIRE internet a portal to free shit. 11 bucks a month for anything I want.

I don't think piracy does anything by intent, it's just a matter of anything is possible, including accidental sales.

[Jasta85]

i think the long and short of all of this is, yes pirating can widen the viewing audience and possibly increase sales (simply due to the fact that many series would be completely unknown here in the states if it wasnt for pirating) however that doesnt change the fact that it is still illegal, regardless of whether it helps the companies or not.

So, as a result illegal pirated anime is mostly ignored by the big companies perhaps because they see it is helpful in promoting their products or perhaps because it is simply too much trouble to try and stamp it out and risk alienating potential customers.

[Sukunai]

Illegal is as you say always illegal.

I think if anime was an American invention, and marketed originally in English, the discussion would be no different that the circulation of movies and TV shows. None of the sites that fan sub would be needed of course. The market wouldn't need them understandably. And they would be the same as any other TV show download.

It's just that they are NOT made originally in English (nor French or German or Italian or Russian for that matter).
The anime industry, where would it be if the ONLY consumers were Japanese speaking persons?

Well I know it wouldn't be on sale or for rent in Canada in any way worth mention.
And I would have never heard of it.

I sure wouldn't have my Madlax or Air sets.
And there likely would be no Animemusicvideos.org

I actually think AMVs do a lot more to sell anime than pirated copies ever will.
The whole argument 'oh I was never going to buy it in the first place' never ceases to amuse me though.
You also would never have it if it wasn't an option to pirate.

But fansubbing fills a needed vacuum. I am NOT going to watch anime in Japanese without the subs.
I don't mind a lot of dubs, but I watch subs more than willingly.

The industry likely wouldn't exist without fansubs. That it is illegal is a technicality that is without merit in anime.
Go ahead, shut down the fansubs. And lay off your staff while you are at it.
Sure some buy anime that have never seen before. But I think it's a given, most ONLY watch anime as they started to watch a few fan subs and became a fan of the whole experience. Not that it's impossible to have never watched a fan sub.
But just try and demonstrate the industry would have ever begun without fan subs inventing the whole interest in the first place.

I refuse to believe the anime industry sprung out of thin air.

[Knowname]

If there was no AMVs.org I probably wouldn't be an anime fan right now as anime's relation to technology is about my only... the only part that keeps me going. I might go to individual studio forums cuz anime intrigues me... but I don't usually chase after things that intrigue me.

[mirkosp]

Just last week I was recommended Noein for editing purposes. Checked the first couple eps, liked it, thought it could work well with my idea, ordered the box and will likely come within thurstday or friday at most. I couldn't possibly just buy a 90 euros box without being sure I would even like the series... >_>

[saetanigera]

When I started righting this I didn't expect to right the beginning of an essay, but I've been reading up a bit and figured I'd share.

A key point in our copyright law is the copyright owner has to charge you. Even when large-scale punishments were taken on the order of about $5,000 per person the companies involved stated the settlements actually amounted to about 20% of the cost it took to take the people to court. It simply isn't cost effective, it's bad press, and you GUARANTEED that person wont buy from you vs the hope they might. Also, if they increase the settlements it doesn't matter very much...people simply don't have that much money sitting around.

A good AMV really is better for promoting an anime than any trailer I've ever seen (even though AMVs are illegal....more illegal than downloaded anime which only has ONE copyrighted source instead of 2-200). The companies don't view AMVs and doujins as competition for their products so they leave them alone.

Most anime producers are well aware that fansubs are an American's version of televised broadcasts. People buying the best 1/5th or 1/10th of the anime they download is actually very similar to how people buy box sets of American shows off TV. Even in America they tried to make recording TV with VCRs illegal which is why we have the (smaller than most people realize) fair use loopholes. So it's not surprising companies occasionally want to charge people to make an example even if they lose money on court fees,ect. when the fansubbing doesn't stop after a show is available in the U.S.

As someone mentioned, fansubs are perfectly good Japanese copies with foreign languages unobtrusively on the bottom of the screen and most of Japan's primary concern is the initial return on their investment which are DVD sales in Japan. If a show isn't licensed in the United States and they track an illegal download to your IP they simply aren't going to care enough to prosecute you. Sharing the content, on the other hand, can be enough to get their attention if it is on a large enough scale (which typically is not the end user).

Right now illegal downloading is very similar to the prohibition. Something like one-third the population is breaking the law on a semi-regular basis. This is obviously a bad situation for society and has resulted in massive changes in copyright laws with promises of more to come. It is interesting to note that the changes in 1997 made it a federal offense to break copyright law resulting in up to 5 years in jail....and they've never used it. It is much easier to take you to civilian court where 'innocent until proven guilty' is a myth (that is only for CRIMINAL offenses). It is even easier to demand an out-of-court settlement. (Note: the settlement always adds 'you must destroy all copies of the copyrighted material' because it ISN'T illegal to possess the material, just to share it)

Most cases don't even ask for a settlement, they simply send a letter to your internet provider (to pass down to you) that says politely but firmly 'IP xxx.xxx.xx.xxx has been using bittorrent/napster/whatever to illegally download "Our stuff" please stop or face possible criminal charges'. Most people who get these notices stop whatever behavior got them caught (I won't say they necessary go cold turkey....or don't switch providers). Parents who get these notices suddenly get on-the-ball in controlling kids downloading habits.

[Enigma]

Just last week I was recommended Noein for editing purposes. Checked the first couple eps, liked it, thought it could work well with my idea, ordered the box and will likely come within thurstday or friday at most. I couldn't possibly just buy a 90 euros box without being sure I would even like the series... >_>

Haha Mirk, I was going threw my local BestBuy around a week ago and saw Noein for around 40$, I'll have to check out a few episodes next time to see if it's worth buying

[Kionon]

The companies don't view AMVs and doujins as competition for their products so they leave them alone....Most anime producers are well aware that fansubs are an American's version of televised broadcasts.

Sources for these two claims? I ask because this does NOT jive with what I read/see/hear in the news in Japanese media. Quite the opposite. The industry gets pissy and makes a big stink almost like clock work every few months. According to my experiences reading English language newspapers, such as The Japan Times, or English translations of Asahi Shimbun and others, it's always the government that sees things the Otaku-way. As I said in another thread, our previous Prime Minister, Taro Aso, came to the helm in large part by appealing to Otaku, and defended the rights of doujinshi artists and MAD creators (he's a Rozen Maiden otaku, desu desu desu desu). Rather, it was the DPJ (Democratic Party of Japan) which kept making noises for tighter enforcement because they were hoping to woo the industry to their side. However, the DPJ came to power, under Hatoyama, largely because of rank and file, every day, ordinary Japanese citizens who were pissed off at the LDP, and its coziness with Zaibatsu (large, family started or currently still run, Japanese firms) in a global recession. Hatoyama and company seem to be going with the status quo to avoid the ire of the public. Helping out corporations against "the little guy" would not be in tune with why the LDP got kicked out and the DPJ got put in.

I experienced this first hand (I can't vote here, of course, but I can contribute and campaign for the candidate/party of my choice). If I could have voted, I am not sure which way I would have gone. The LDP being so pro-Otaku in the ways of copyright was a good reason for me to stick with them, but the DPJ was for easing immigration restrictions, which of course, obviously, is huge issue for me (as an immigrant to Japan).

[mirkosp]

Just last week I was recommended Noein for editing purposes. Checked the first couple eps, liked it, thought it could work well with my idea, ordered the box and will likely come within thurstday or friday at most. I couldn't possibly just buy a 90 euros box without being sure I would even like the series... >_>

Haha Mirk, I was going threw my local BestBuy around a week ago and saw Noein for around 40$, I'll have to check out a few episodes next time to see if it's worth buying

90.40 EUR was worth it... and that's 127.726 USD. I would say that 40 USD is an insane deal. But after all, without checking it out yourself, you wouldn't be able to know.