Cyrix's SUPER easy ripping tutorial (Windows)

[Cyrix]

Actually I think I misinterpreted what you said

[Kionon]

Forgive my ignorance, then. What filtering needs to be done?

1) You need to crop the edges.
2) If it's progressive, then you won't need to IVTC, but that does look pretty noisy. If you look carefully on the girl, you can see vertical streaks in her hair and eyes. Also, her general lines look more jaggy and less smooth than the boy's.

Do you know if Premiere supports lagarith or huffyuv without preview rendering? If not, that's just another problem.

*sigh* I am so sick of hearing this complaint. Honestly, are you that lazy? Really? That you can't render each change? You have no idea how good you have it. Ten, eleven years ago, I used to have to wait for premiere to render, and it took hours. If I needed to rerender an entire video, it might have taken days. Do it right: change, save, render, save, and quit bitching. Be glad you don't need to do the editing equivalent of walking uphill both ways in the snow.

Oh, really? Well tell me which parts of this image are from a snapshot of the DVD, and which parts are from a snapshot of the DV-AVI I put on top of it?

Really. I already explained the issues I saw. I'm not going to play your guessing game.

[Cyrix]

Crop the edges? Do you scale up the video to fill the space you cropped off?

Since that's a progressive DVD any issues you think you see are with the original. You can't see the differnce from the different portions because there is no quality difference.

Preview rendering isn't work. Don't act like laziness plays a part in pressing enter. I just don't get paid hourly to edit so I have no reason to waste my time rendering clips with no effects.on them. I already deal with rendering effects and transitions. You sound like you're bitter modern editors don't face the hardships you did so you want them to toil away and waste time.

SUPER is perfect for novice editors who don't have the knowledge, time, or interest in the absurd hurdles of avi synth. They won't notice or care about supposed quality problems of incredible insignificance. Why.discourage them from a practical method of simultaneous ripping and converting?

[Phantasmagoriat]

@Cyrix: You know, that's actually clever enough that it almost pains me to say I agree with everyone else in this thread. There are far better ways of doing it. [yes you might have to index the vob's... which really isn't a big deal... but you never require "sacrificial offerings, or forbidden seal techniques" ]

Although I can't stop you or anyone from doing things the way you want,
most people have a work-flow that follows the guides on this site.
Generally something like this:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... rview.html

The main advantage IMHO is being able to use avisynth, which can do a number of things like restore progressive frames, adjust framerate, crop, resize, denoise, deblock... etc; VDub has Job Control which allows you to process a list of clips instead of doing every clip one at a time; or you could frameserve directly into your editor to eliminate the need for clips all together. I could list many more reasons not to use SUPER, but if that's what you want to do, all the power to you. Just be aware that you are missing out on stuff that can have a significant impact on your video, and [believe it or not,] even make editing easier [at least later on].

cheers,

~Phan

[Cyrix]

Thanks. I'm sure I'll get around to AVI-synth sooner or later but SUPER has worked so simply and well I think it's worth sharing it with others.

Sorry if I come across as a dick - I don't mean to be, but I'm always bad at communicating online >_< .

Also, regarding SUPER screwing up your computer... well, I have two 64-bit systems, a laptop and a desktop. The laptop started with Vista and SUPER worked fine on it, but I upgraded it to Windows 7, and SUPER still worked fine on it. My desktop came with Windows 7 and likewise has never had an issue. I use VLC player for watching most things, and SUPER never gave it any codec issues - it still works with everything.

I forgot to mention SUPER doesn't seem to be able to convert heavily copy-protected DVDs (Wolf's Rain turns into a garbled mess, but this also happens when I try to watch a VOB file off the disc by itself with VLC). Does AVI-synth bypass copy-protection more effectively?

[Zarxrax]

Super wont cause VLC to have problems, because VLC is entirely self-contained and does not rely on anything on the system itself. Also the problem is not with super itself working. It can break OTHER software thats on your computer, and thats the problem. And when you notice that other software isn't working right, you may not even have any idea that super is causing the problem. You might just think that the other software sucks because it isn't working right.
The real problem here, is that super is often recommended to noobish users who don't really know what they are doing. Now, giving these users something to make their lives easier is not a problem. But when the software is known to cause some serious problems, then THAT is a huge issue. Because the people who are mostly using super don't understand the underlying things that are going on with their computer, then when a problem does arise, then they have absolutely NO idea what to do about it.

[Kionon]

Crop the edges? Do you scale up the video to fill the space you cropped off?

Typically, yes. Of course that's not exactly the horror you're making it out to be. The DVD software would do this anyhow. Overscan. And you would need to adjust for aspect ratio or flag it anyhow.

Since that's a progressive DVD any issues you think you see are with the original. You can't see the differnce from the different portions because there is no quality difference.

I can't see atoms either, but science tells me they exist. Likewise, DV is a lossy codec, just because my eyes can't see the difference, that doesn't mean the computer can't, and editing with lossy footage and then rendering it out in more lossy footage and then encoding that into an additional lossy codec for distribution... It adds up. The only time your footage should ever be lossy is that last step, distribution.

Preview rendering isn't work. Don't act like laziness plays a part in pressing enter. I just don't get paid hourly to edit so I have no reason to waste my time rendering clips with no effects.on them. I already deal with rendering effects and transitions. You sound like you're bitter modern editors don't face the hardships you did so you want them to toil away and waste time.

You don't need to preview render lossless codecs if you set your previews to ALSO be that lossless codec. I thought you meant when you applied transitions and effects. There's no need to render something that is all straight cuts.

No, see, I am bitter, but not about that. I'm bitter about this entire instant gratification culture that has grown up. We want our scanlations right now, we want our fansubs right now, we want to cut corners and make a video in a matter of hours, upload it to YouTube immediately, and watch while the ego-stroking, but useless and uncritical comments flow on in. That makes me bitter.

SUPER is perfect for novice editors who don't have the knowledge, time, or interest in the absurd hurdles of avi synth. They won't notice or care about supposed quality problems of incredible insignificance. Why.discourage them from a practical method of simultaneous ripping and converting?

Because if you're going to do something, you should do it right. You don't change the rules of the game just because someone hasn't learned to play effectively yet. No, what you have them do is practice. I will always discourage inappropriate and ineffectual "short cuts." If you don't have the knowledge, you learn it. If you don't have the time, you adjust your schedule if it's important to you. If you don't have the interest in doing things right, why even bother? I don't care if it is just a hobby, take some pride in what you do.

Avisynth doesn't do anything with decryption. You require a ripper for that. Avisynth works as a frameserver, offering up frames to other programs with filter commands applied.

[Cyrix]

Also the problem is not with super itself working. It can break OTHER software thats on your computer, and thats the problem.

This is why I pointed out it didn't break VLC, VLC being OTHER software. It also hasn't broken anything else. Maybe they fixed that? Shared DLLs are Windows' mortal enemy.

Typically, yes. Of course that's not exactly the horror you're making it out to be. The DVD software would do this anyhow. Overscan. And you would need to adjust for aspect ratio or flag it anyhow.

No, it's not a horror (did I say it was?), it's just that cropping it is unnecessary because you can still scale it up past the frame edges in the editor.

Likewise, DV is a lossy codec, just because my eyes can't see the difference, that doesn't mean the computer can't, and editing with lossy footage and then rendering it out in more lossy footage and then encoding that into an additional lossy codec for distribution... It adds up. The only time your footage should ever be lossy is that last step, distribution.

Did you work in the video industry? When I worked with a production company we used DV-AVI (or MOV on a MAC) for everything. Capture from camera to DV-AVI, edit the DV-AVI, export a DV-AVI and plug that into whatever DVD creation software we used. The miniscule loss of quality was considered acceptable for time and space tradeoffs. Since then the contract work I've done has always been Premiere with DV-AVI - small companies making 480i/p videos, but everyone worked the same.

Some people are going to cons, but most of these videos end up on this website and maybe on Youtube. If it's a novice editor working on an AMV for fun, do they need extremely competitive video quality with people counting the compression artifacts? When I watch a video, if it's not shit quality, I enjoy it for the AMV, not for the codecs involved in making it.

I can't see atoms either, but science tells me they exist.

You need better scissors, you're wasting atoms.

There's no need to render something that is all straight cuts.

That's good to know.

We want our scanlations right now, we want our fansubs right now, we want to cut corners and make a video in a matter of hours

I spend a very long amount of time on my videos. There's always going to be people who do above-professional-leve work and people with a god damned hobby doing something for fun. People who really care are still going to use AVI-synth but hopefully some people who don't want to deal with it can make some videos without it. If you can't accept there are people with different levels of involvement and dedication in making art without getting paid to do so, maybe you shouldn't be on the internet. It's ridiculously close-minded that you want to enforce your expectations of quality on everyone in the world, and prevent people from doing things the way they want to because it doesn't suit your personal standards.

Because if you're going to do something, you should do it right.

If you're going to do something, you should accept there is usually more than one way to do it.

You don't change the rules of the game just because someone hasn't learned to play effectively yet.

GOOD GOD. Have you heard of children's sports? Softball? Playing a game on the "easy" difficulty setting?

I don't care if it is just a hobby, take some pride in what you do.

You have no right to tell others what level of pride they should take from their work. You have no right to tell them they don't deserve pride in their work because they didn't do it your way.

[Kionon]

No, it's not a horror (did I say it was?), it's just that cropping it is unnecessary because you can still scale it up past the frame edges in the editor.

You should have your footage exactly as you need it to be in a lossless format before it even touches an editing suite.

Did you work in the video industry? When I worked with a production company we used DV-AVI (or MOV on a MAC) for everything. Capture from camera to DV-AVI, edit the DV-AVI, export a DV-AVI and plug that into whatever DVD creation software we used. The miniscule loss of quality was considered acceptable for time and space tradeoffs. Since then the contract work I've done has always been Premiere with DV-AVI - small companies making 480i/p videos, but everyone worked the same.

Yes, from about 1998-2006. I've worked on linear editing setups like Play's Trinity with multiple SVHS cams, to using mini DV Canons and JVC cams and editing on Windows NT with Premiere 5.1c, to Avid, to the Premiere Pro series, and to finally switching over entirely to Mac. I still use Premiere Pro, but have plenty of experience with the Final Cut family. I worked for a TV station, made news segments, filmed a documentary on drunk driving, and made TV commercials for Democratic candidates. However, this is largely irrelevant to the current discussion because...

As I have explained elsewhere, the process you describe is different from what we do as AMV editors. From camera to editor to DVD authoring, you (or your production team) control the input at each step. DV was absolutely acceptable for SD TV, and we used it. It was interlaced, we left it that way, edited it that way, and authored it to DVD that way. We didn't have to do any processing on the footage, UNLESS the cameraman (small station, so most of us shot, edited, and authored our own segments) screwed up on white balancing, etc. Of course, SVHS tape was usually progressive, but that was still captured into DV.

However, when dealing with anime DVDs, we do not have control over the initial source. We buy it like it is. Then we have to spend time undoing any damage done to the source due to the original format or encoding. We have a lot of processing to do. That processing occurs between ripping/decrypting and placing the footage into the editing suite. Going straight from the VOB to the editing suite, even after a "conversion" to DV-AVI, is absolutely useless. You still need to filter. Something I never had to do when I was working in TV.

Also, DV is a group of codecs, AVI/MOV are containers. Don't get them confused.

Some people are going to cons, but most of these videos end up on this website and maybe on Youtube. If it's a novice editor working on an AMV for fun, do they need extremely competitive video quality with people counting the compression artifacts? When I watch a video, if it's not shit quality, I enjoy it for the AMV, not for the codecs involved in making it.

This isn't about needing. It's about wanting. If you don't have the interest in your own video to do things the way they should be done, why should I have any interest either?

I spend a very long amount of time on my videos. There's always going to be people who do above-professional-leve work and people with a god damned hobby doing something for fun. People who really care are still going to use AVI-synth but hopefully some people who don't want to deal with it can make some videos without it. If you can't accept there are people with different levels of involvement and dedication in making art without getting paid to do so, maybe you shouldn't be on the internet. It's ridiculously close-minded that you want to enforce your expectations of quality on everyone in the world, and prevent people from doing things the way they want to because it doesn't suit your personal standards.

Maybe you do, but you're playing enabler to those that won't.

I'm not getting paid for this. Not anymore. Didn't pay very much anyhow. I can accept the fact that there are people with different levels of involvement and dedication to any hobby, that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and pretend I think that's as valid as someone who puts in the work. I'm no cultural relativist. Not all efforts are equal.

Do I look like I have any way of "enforcing" the community standards? About the only thing I can do is what I am already doing, exerting peer pressure by explaining why those standards are the standards of the community, not just my own, and how there are reasons why they are the standards. Yet, I cannot stop you if you wish to use inferior methodologies that limit your ability to grow and improve, and you can upload whatever you want (unfortunately, in my view) to local as long as it's recognisable as an AMV. There is no way to prevent people from doing whatever they want if they've a mind to do it. The only thing I can do is plead with them not to.

If you're going to do something, you should accept there is usually more than one way to do it.

And you should recognise some ways are better than others. This isn't one of those better ways.

GOOD GOD. Have you heard of children's sports? Softball? Playing a game on the "easy" difficulty setting?

Are you a child? Do you wish to be treated like a child? If so, then your argument might have merit. However, even the genuine children on the Org often insist they do not want to be treated like children, your argument has no weight when all the participants claim to be deserving of an adult environment.

Softball is a distinct sport. It is not some diet-Baseball, not anymore. Speaking of children, I've got a team of 12 year old girls who would beat the crap out of you for suggesting that it is.

You have no right to tell others what level of pride they should take from their work. You have no right to tell them they don't deserve pride in their work because they didn't do it your way.

I have every right to tell people that there is a skill set they must utilise to improve their videos, and that if they don't acquire that skill set, then they are not showing that video improvement is a priority to them. That's fine, but I won't watch their videos. I will watch videos with very weak technique as long as I believe the editor is making an earnest attempt to improve. Those that not only do not improve, but slap away the hand that offers instruction, will find me a most unwilling viewer.

[Phantasmagoriat]

Holy Hell.

The guy is just as entitled to make his shit as you are yours.
After all... what's one piece of trash over another... I mean... wait... you know I'm joking right <3

just saying