2011 VCA General Discussion

[Nya-chan Production]

It can't be a great idea.
Watching a vid, you're not saying "hm, that lenght was cool", you just consider what's inside.
Or if there is "best short", there has to be "best long" and The Epic of Griffith would prolly win (reading org people ops on it) but I don't see anybody consider it as a point making the vid good. I would even say mentioning it to someone, you prolly say that there's no need to be afraid of the lenght.

I may be biased, because two of my vids are in that category and I propagate this style every way possible, but I'll try to voice my view on this. Btw, I liked Reggie's vid too, watched it completely through and it was a deserved view.
There is no "bad idea" or "great idea" in this - it's just normal. It's the same as genres, any video isn't better or worse objectively, because it's action/romance/short/long/effectsy/whatever. It can be poorly executed, but that's something different, and it can be not to your liking, but that's subjective.
(Btw, the Storytelling is normal category too, because every video contains 0-1 of better or worse interpreted storytelling, but there's a problem with VERY high subjectivity in this category, which leads to conflicts ;x )
As for the "Long video" category - I would like to see something like that too. I think that people who make very short videos (where you have to have clear concept and superb execution to express your idea) or very long videos (where you have to keep viewers attention with the concept and execution as well) should be supported in any way possible, because there's always enough of 2-3 minutes long videos.

To sum it up - length of the video doesn't say that the videos is good/bad, as the genre doesn'T say that. All it is is the sorting point and there are good and bad short videos and there are good and bad long videos. The point of VCAs is for the people to tell us which short and long videos are the good ones.

Lenght isn't a matter point in editing. In addition, if it's good and short, you will regret this lenght like "Need moar, why is it so short?".

Anyway, the fact there weren't even enough vid to vote for in semi-finals seems enough to me.
There was no issue like that with "Best Storytelling" last year, nobody needed more explanation about it!

Just my op about that...

Well, here I think you're wrong, length IS a point of editing. I suppose Reggie wouldn't be content if the audio was cut to half and some ideas have to be expresseed in short time to have more impact. For one example, "Kanon in Five Seconds" would be just weird if it lasted 2 minutes ;x
Oh, and I'd take "Need moar, why is it so short?" over "Boring, why is it so long?" anyday :> It's the intention of the author, so the viewers usually see it differently, but s/he wanted it "this" long.

As for the why there were not enough videos, it was already mentioned - the videos were not filtered, so you had to remember which videos from 4500 ones were shorter than 60 seconds - and that's not an easy thing to remember. Maybe, if this category survives, doki can make us some filter for that :>

[BasharOfTheAges]

There clearly weren't enough qualifying vids of quality to make a category out of it though. Granted, that hasn't stopped parody or no-effects for years, so why should this?

I'm honestly not so sure about the moderation applied to this category; either do it to everything, or leave it alone. A five minute video winning "Best Short video" isn't going to suddenly cause mass revelations about the nature of the VCAs. I'm pretty sure we all get it by now.

[Nya-chan Production]

There clearly weren't enough qualifying vids of quality to make a category out of it though. Granted, that hasn't stopped parody or no-effects for years, so why should this?

I'm honestly not so sure about the moderation applied to this category; either do it to everything, or leave it alone. A five minute video winning "Best Short video" isn't going to suddenly cause mass revelations about the nature of the VCAs. I'm pretty sure we all get it by now.

But there is moderation in almost every other category, though anyone can overcome it by listing all of the categories when entering the video O.o
Maybe limiting the stuff to 90s instead of 60s would help, though.

[Ileia]

While the category may not have worked out so well this year, I'm glad that new things are being tried. I think that's better then never straying outside the cut and paste version of the previous year.

[BasharOfTheAges]

There clearly weren't enough qualifying vids of quality to make a category out of it though. Granted, that hasn't stopped parody or no-effects for years, so why should this?

I'm honestly not so sure about the moderation applied to this category; either do it to everything, or leave it alone. A five minute video winning "Best Short video" isn't going to suddenly cause mass revelations about the nature of the VCAs. I'm pretty sure we all get it by now.

But there is moderation in almost every other category, though anyone can overcome it by listing all of the categories when entering the video O.o
Maybe limiting the stuff to 90s instead of 60s would help, though.

I mean manual moderation - going in and saying "hey, this video shouldn't be in this category even if it got votes" and doing something about it. That was actually done in this case. The genre check boxes are just self-selected filters, not moderation.

[MimS]

Nya, most of what you say doesn't justifty the category for me, you just say things about the author doing the vid not the person watching the vid according to me.
And well, this is Viewer Choice's Awards and not Maker Choice's Awards...
If "Use of Special Effects" is a genre to me "Lenght" isn't because watching a vid, you may notice some technical stuffs tried by the author making it interesting when lenght doesn't.
You mention "Kanon in 5 secs" : Seriously, I only see org people to think of it as a vid to remember. For sure, I admit, being 2 minutes long, it would be a pain, however, for what it is, it's only something done by someone bored at a particular time which is funny to watch once and then forget...
...
I mean, it's 5 seconds long, how can u even think of it as a *real* AMV?

About :

As for the why there were not enough videos, it was already mentioned - the videos were not filtered, so you had to remember which videos from 4500 ones were shorter than 60 seconds - and that's not an easy thing to remember. Maybe, if this category survives, doki can make us some filter for that :>

I prolly like the Storytelling example but...
I don't think there is any filter for this category, is there? And people have no problem about remembering what could be interesting in it even if you're right saying there's subjectivity...

While the category may not have worked out so well this year, I'm glad that new things are being tried. I think that's better then never straying outside the cut and paste version of the previous year.

Obviously. I do think the same, I just have my op about some choices. Also, talking about that :
Why did admins add Best Short and not Best Psychedelic when we're were many people asking for it to be created?

[Nya-chan Production]

Nya, most of what you say doesn't justifty the category for me, you just say things about the author doing the vid not the person watching the vid according to me.
And well, this is Viewer Choice's Awards and not Maker Choice's Awards...
If "Use of Special Effects" is a genre to me "Lenght" isn't because watching a vid, you may notice some technical stuffs tried by the author making it interesting when lenght doesn't.
You mention "Kanon in 5 secs" : Seriously, I only see org people to think of it as a vid to remember. For sure, I admit, being 2 minutes long, it would be a pain, however, for what it is, it's only something done by someone bored at a particular time which is funny to watch once and then forget...
...
I mean, it's 5 seconds long, how can u even think of it as a *real* AMV?

To sum it up - length of the video doesn't say that the videos is good/bad, as the genre doesn't say that. All it is is the sorting point and there are good and bad short videos and there are good and bad long videos. The point of VCAs is for the people to tell us which short and long videos are the good ones.

That's IMO a reply.
Btw, if "Use of Special Effects" is a genre, because you notice technical stuff, then what about "Romance"? What about "Drama"? Do you notice how author built it up and worked with it? Then length is totally a genre too, because every author works with it and every viewer notices it (or doesn't, but you don't have to notice FX as well). Honestly, the best name for this category would be "Best Use of Time", but that's quite an obnoxious name, isn't it? :>
As for your last sentence, that has to be joke, right? I consider, say, godix's 1s video to be one of the finest AMVs ever made, because it totally tells you everything about its author and his editing style, while masterfully executed. Why should something NOT be a video because of length?

About :

As for the why there were not enough videos, it was already mentioned - the videos were not filtered, so you had to remember which videos from 4500 ones were shorter than 60 seconds - and that's not an easy thing to remember. Maybe, if this category survives, doki can make us some filter for that :>

I prolly like the Storytelling example but...
I don't think there is any filter for this category, is there? And people have no problem about remembering what could be interesting in it even if you're right saying there's subjectivity...

Have you even looked into that category? People just nominated whatever they remembered from other categories. There is NO video in Storytelling ONLY - which is wrong, IMO, but I am unsure of what to do with that, because that's a tough thing to fix, really.

And obviously you can't do that with Best Short.

[Kitsuner]

Maybe it isn't as pronounced in AMVs, since the average video length is only three times the length of a short video, but I see the category as a strong parallel between the Academy Awards. Three of the Oscar's awards (Best Picture, Best Documentary, and Best Animated Feature) also reward short forms of each type. It's tricky to build a solid video that leaves a strong impact in less than a minute sometimes, just like it's tricky to stick to a concept and keep a viewer's attention throughout a full-length "feature" AMV.

You mention "Kanon in 5 secs" : Seriously, I only see org people to think of it as a vid to remember. For sure, I admit, being 2 minutes long, it would be a pain, however, for what it is, it's only something done by someone bored at a particular time which is funny to watch once and then forget...
...
I mean, it's 5 seconds long, how can u even think of it as a *real* AMV?

It's ten seconds long, but this is exactly what I'm saying. Short videos aren't considered "real AMVs" by most viewers. I'd expect that this is the same reason the Academy separates short films from features. Shorts allow for concepts that would be boring in a feature to be made interesting, but compared against a full-length video or film, they don't stand a chance.

[MimS]

Honestly, the best name for this category would be "Best Use of Time", but that's quite an obnoxious name, isn't it? :>
As for your last sentence, that has to be joke, right? I consider, say, godix's 1s video to be one of the finest AMVs ever made, because it totally tells you everything about its author and his editing style, while masterfully executed. Why should something NOT be a video because of length?

It may be but it's completely different, there can be a "best use of time" in a 2-3 minutes vid also you know.
It isn't. As for kanon in 5 seconds, Godix's Higurashi stuff isn't a "real" vid to me, just a joke

It's ten seconds long, but this is exactly what I'm saying. Short videos aren't considered "real AMVs" by most viewers. I'd expect that this is the same reason the Academy separates short films from features. Shorts allow for concepts that would be boring in a feature to be made interesting, but compared against a full-length video or film, they don't stand a chance.

This...

Though : I'm not saying these short vids suck or that people don't have to watch them just that it's not AMV like I would define it.

[MimS]

Also waiting for an answer about Best Psychedelic...