AnimeMusicVideos.org TOCAG Assessment

[Pwolf]

To be honest, this is just a lot of rehashing of the ideas and thoughts people have made in the redesign threads. Unfortunately any changes, wither or not it requires extra programming, need to be ultimately decided by someone at the top of the food chain... and that's not really happening at the moment. We are kind of stuck with what we have unfortunately.

[AMVGuide]

Here's the way I'm looking at it:


Based on the numbers, nobody bothers with cataloging anymore. And it's just going to keep getting worse unless the org actually tries doing something for once. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be anything. But it's got to be something.

And if the org is in some kind of limbo, then I'll just leave this idea to the powers that be. But what I'm offering here is something. And that's all the org needs. Can we at least agree on that much?

Either way:

v2.0



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Hmm... I think that looks way better. But anyways, the best thing you can do is put your self in the shoes of the average user that finds the org for the first time. It's a very small window of opportunity. It only lasts about 8 seconds, before the user decides whether the page has what they are looking for or not before going back to google and trying the next link. For the ones that are lucky enough to know what a forum is, they'll go there. For the ones that are lucky enough to see the AMV Announcements forum and not dismiss it as site announcements, they'll go there. Meanwhile, the rest of them are still on the homepage deciding whether they should sign up or not. Which is something most parents tell their kids not to do (because... you know... the younger generation makes up a larger demographic than the average forum-goer probably ever thinks about). And this is all a long while away before anyone even considers posting anything. Yet the fundamentals still hold true. The only topics anyone makes are still just AMV Announcements and discussions in General AMV. My suggestion fulfills that user-demand the moment anyone gets to the site. It's the only stuff anyone actually uses. How it looks is just an after thought at that point. They only care if it does what they wanted it to do the first time they got to the site. All within 8 seconds. If it looks pretty or not... well that's just a bonus.

Now, most of us probably can't remember exactly how their first encounter with the org went; but for whatever reason, the conditions were just right that we decided to stay. And for many, it took a while before we even posted. So let me open your eyes a little bit: Everyone here in this forum is an outlier. We are all statistical anomalies that somehow hung on instead of leaving within those first 8 seconds. The vast majority of users likely don't even give the org the light of day.


So again: Put yourself into the shoes of someone that has stumbled across the org for the first time.
How did they get there? When someone types 'AMV' into their search engine, what are they looking for?
Generally, they just want to:

• 1. Find out where all the good stuff is
  2. Share their own stuff
  3. Check out what other people are doing,
  4. and maybe talk about it.

From the current homepage, can you accomplish any of that within 8 seconds?
Not so much.


_________________

The fact still remains: The only real power the org has ever had is the homepage gateway; and it could be used more effectively.
I mean, If it wasn't for doki coding the AMV Spotlight, there wouldn't be much to interact with (Thanks for that BTW).
And if we're all just striving for a spotlight, (...and we all are when you get right down to it...) everyone can get that chance with the design I'm proposing.

PS: The AMV Spotlight could totally be embedded above the forum. I didn't even think about that until just now. I also prettied it up a bit. Did you notice?
PSS: If you use GIMP, here's what's I'm working with: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/157 ... ge_002.xcf

[ngsilver]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a redesign of the main homepage (something we've been discussing for years, had a great design and work towards it) is going to 'rekindle' the hobby. I mean, didn't we already have a thread were we came to the conclusion that it isn't the hobby that is dying but the org itself? So again, the idea of 'rekindling' should be better in tune with the org and not the hobby.

If we are trying to breath new life into the site, then the redesign proposed above is not how to do it. Look at all that wasted space! Seriously, we should be more trying to set ourselves up similarly to how youtube gives content, and make things more accessible. Trythil's design looked great and it did all of that.

This brings me right back to why this is even being brought back up again. We had already decided to look into a re-design. We had come up with a design. We just lost the coders required to make it. We don't need a new design again, we need people to code it.

Honestly, even with that happening I don't see it fixing the issue the org faces right now. We're way too far behind the 8ball at this point. Youtube is just way to easy to use and people are there. Sure, it may not be as friendly to AMVs as we are, but they already have the viewers. We have... well... a forum that is partially used.

Honestly, I'd rather have my videos played on the big screen at contests at conventions, heck, even re-uploaded by the best of amv people then randomly have it appear on the front page of the org. It'd be seen by way more people at that point.

[AMVGuide]

Read my last post and it should all make sense. The gist of it is that the orgs homepage literally acts as the gateway to the entire world of AMVs since it comes up as the first search result. And if the average attention span of *new* users is only 8 seconds, the org shoots itself in the foot with the current homepage by not gaining anymore user-base. I should also repeat that this design does not require any coding. The org could have this by the end of the day if they wanted to since it's basically just the AMV Announcement Forum with a naming scheme.

[Pwolf]

Again, either way, this would require a decision from the powers that be, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

[TheAMVShow]

I think you're missing the point of what everyone is trying to say. The focus of the redesign shouldn't be instant gratification. Youtube already exists for that in terms of AMVs. Follow a couple of those megauploader channels and your set with AMVs for life.

Oddly enough, I think any redesign should stray away from videos and put emphasis on blostering the community. If I see a strong vibrant culture outside of what I would normally expect, I'd be more inclined to stick around as opposed to shifting through videos.

[Pwolf]

I'd also like to point out that new users also have to create an account to either post or download videos from this site so only taking into consideration the home page isn't going to really fix the issue you're trying to address. It may actually create more confusion.

[AMVGuide]

Okay, so I'm almost convince this community is intent on *trying* to die.

Everyone has offered criticism, but not a single person has offered advice.
Most of your posts either contradict themselves; make faulty comparisons; or
come to conclusions based on backwards senses of priority.

I should remind everyone that I'm not trying to create the perfect system; just an alternative to what we have now. Because the current system simply doesn't work. It's got to be something that get's users where they want to go right away, is feasable, requires minimal/no coding, and offers something new/different that can generate more activity. And as it is right now, almost anything could do a better job of that than the current homepage because the current page goes nowhere... yet that's where it all starts for new users. And that's also where community activity comes from. So the org is going to continue to decline, and probably drag down the rest of the hobby with it if that homepage stays the way it is. It'll just continue to keep turning away new users; providing no opportunity for growth because it doesn't provide a visible environment for the userbase to play with.

@Pwolf: Users do not have to use the local host. Actually, they'd be daft to do so if you just do a comparison between posting a link vs cataloging a video. Albiet, that's only if you want to use the local hosting, which very few actaully use, even with the benefit of a full quality download. But still, why do you even bring this up? You have to go through the same steps for local hosting no matter using the current system or the one I'm proposing. In fact, the system I'm proposing literally cuts out two steps out of that process: Going to the forum, and going to the announcements. That can't add to more confusion. It can only make things easier. And it would collect all AMVs too. Not just the ones in the catalog. Additionally, if the homepage was forum-based, users don't have to register or log in just to see what other people are posting. This is a farce that the current homepage would have users believe when they pull up to the gates of the org. So yeah, for local hosting, you got to log in no matter what; so if the current local hosting stays the same, it's going to be confusing no matter what. However, with the system I'm proposing, you would at least have a way to find the videos people are posting. How does sharing videos even work without the forum? It doesn't. The videos just go into a database void where nobody gets responses, because there is no system for that. The system I'm proposing pulls all of that right up to the front of the site. Which is the only thing people use the org for in the first place. That can't make things more confusing. It can only make things easier.

If you want to talk about confusion, look at the cataloging system. If anything, that's where the confusion comes from. The cataloging rule shouldn't even be required in the first place. The org can't realistically keep up with cataloging anymore. So, why force the users to go through the daunting task of cataloging when they can simply post a link? Encourage cataloging by all means-- but don't force it. And like I said, even if it's not in the catalog, it will still be in the forum. Which is a much better record of an AMV than no record at all.

@TheAMVShow: There's something contradictory in this post. I'm totally with you on wanting to emphasis the community. And this design does that. It literally puts the community right on the front page. And that would actually create the vibrant culture you speak of.

[Taite]

Everyone has offered criticism, but not a single person has offered advice.

I'm ok with Suggestion 2.

The forum is great, homepage not so much, so I'll agree with you there.

reposts are cools

If someone posted their amv recently, and thus were on the top of the forum, and had a preview available, that could go under the spotlight, but that's not considered being "#1," but whenever someone comments on a thread it brings that thread to the top, so it's constantly changing, and it'd be annoying for that to be changing all the time too. I know that wasn't what you were suggesting but what you're suggesting the org already has

What the org needs for the forum is an aesthetic reformat, perhaps, but the homepages need a complete makeover, not something we already have.

One thing with this is that it facilitates more discussion for specific amvs since it's the first 'click,' essentially, into the site, which could counteract the last issue I mentioned

You're not listening to what anyone has saying. Instead of repeating over and over how it's going to be "feasible," "generate more activity," etcetcetcetc, look at the reasons why everyone is saying it won't, since repeating stuff over without taking anything in doesn't help either. Take the crit and generate different ideas, which I agree most people in here haven't done but that's because we've done it a thousand flippin times over, and there's also like 3 editors in here so this isn't the limit of feedback you're going to get, hopefully. I made my suggestions and gave my criticism as well as advice, so did everyone else, but you're just rehashing everything you already said and we're telling you, at least I'm telling you, it's not going to work. I mean christ.


Also, this:

I should remind everyone that I'm not trying to create the perfect system; just an alternative to what we have now

Then what's the point of implementing anything if it's just going to be changed later? We know what's going to work, what will be the 'perfect system,' we've discussed it a thousand times over, but we can't do that right now. Why put in a flawed system after another flawed system? If you want to make an experiment out of it, great, but everything is up to the higher powers anyhow, that's the way I see it. Unless one of them gets up in here debating over the same stuff is useless.

[trythil]

I love this thread; now someone else knows how I felt.

I know this is completely non-constructive. I'm just saying.