Anti-Trolling rule needs to take affect more?

[Gene Starwind 21122]

Yeah Vlad that does make since. A lot videos that do make the finals don't always win. So maybe there should be a finals count instead. Sort of like once your video make X number of finals or again limiting the age of the videos to 6 months would help with this.

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Yeah Vlad that does make since. A lot videos that do make the finals don't always win. So maybe there should be a finals count instead. Sort of like once your video make X number of finals or again limiting the age of the videos to 6 months would help with this.

I think that kind of rule is too messy and really would only frustrate creators and really be hard to police as well..

Vlad

[MaboroshiStudio]

Gene, I think you missed one important point I was trying to make earlier.. To restrict winning multiple awards does not really solve the problem of trolling fairness to those who enter if you go down that path.

In the end, it should not be about winning, but getting a chance to have your video played in the finals on the big screen in front of a large audience. My point is putting limits on awards does not eliminate trolling as I see a lot of video that don't win a lot but they always end up in the finals of a lot of cons.

Vlad

I agree and disagree... there is cause and effect happening if you ask me. You have the trolling AMVs that are cleaning up and then you have people trolling their videos trying to get recognition. If there was a 6+6 rule where it is a 6 month fresh + 6 award rule what you will see if the non winning troll amvs win more and then less need to troll them. Right now I feel it is a bit of a vicious circle...

I agree it won't eliminate all trolling... and will require some additional work.

Also if most cons have a 6 month fresh rule you will see less trolling of videos for the entire year and thus fresher amvs. Still at MTAC I want to show the videos that don't meet the 6+6 requirement... very much like a best of the best from other cons.

[MaboroshiStudio]

Yeah Vlad that does make since. A lot videos that do make the finals don't always win. So maybe there should be a finals count instead. Sort of like once your video make X number of finals or again limiting the age of the videos to 6 months would help with this.

finalist count is insane lol...

[BasharOfTheAges]

Serious question: are you relying on people following the rules and not submitting or keeping track of EVERYTHING yourself (including all those cons that don't post results here)? Because in all the years of running contests I haven't even been able to get people to follow the rules on something as simple as naming videos per the requested format. I hear cons that "require" black leader don't get it either.

Rules are like a contract of sorts. If you're holding people that submit to a standard of rules, it should be expected that everyone else that submits be held to the exact same standard. If you can't ensure that person A shouldn't have been DQ'd, it's hardly fair to person B who was DQ'd for the same reason.

[MaboroshiStudio]

I haven't even been able to get people to follow the rules on something as simple as naming videos per the requested format. I hear cons that "require" black leader don't get it either.

that does annoy me... it isn't hard to do and it helps the coordinators so what they ask forI do when entering

[Vlad G Pohnert]

I haven't even been able to get people to follow the rules on something as simple as naming videos per the requested format. I hear cons that "require" black leader don't get it either.

that does annoy me... it isn't hard to do and it helps the coordinators so what they ask forI do when entering

That is why I don't bother placing those into my rules, otherwise I would have to DQ well over half the entries which is just not practical.

I do have to agree, if you have rules you need to stand by them or what's the point. It's the interpolation of some rules and what people can get away with that makes it interesting.

BTW, just a heads up on the 6 month freshness approach. I've been using that for most of my contests and it will really depend on what time of year your contest is at. If it's at the beginning of the year I tend to stretch it to 8 months as most people take the late fall to Christmas off or are too busy so it's can be an uphill battle to get a good selection of videos sometimes (I learned that one year). If its kind of mid summer, then even 6 month rule may get you videos that already won a pile of awards. If you restrict it down to less, then you also run the danger of a lot less submissions... Fun stuff.

However, if you don't concern yourself too much about how many awards video "X" has won, I do find the 6 month freshness rule does get a lot of new competition to the table which is good. ALSO, you will no believe how many people actually break that rule too and really have no idea it was there when you tell them their entry is unacceptable.

Vlad

[BasharOfTheAges]

That's sort of the point I was getting at. You're lucky if most people even skim the rules, let alone read them.

[MaboroshiStudio]

That's sort of the point I was getting at. You're lucky if most people even skim the rules, let alone read them.

I get what you are saying, but I don't see those as DQ offenses...

I might break the rules up a bit more this year to make it easier at MTAC. That or have a pop-up upon sending videos to confirm some items noting your video will be DQ'd if these items are not observed.

[VivifxAMV]

I'm gonna jump on here and give my two cents about trolling and trolling rules. I know some people might see me as part of the problem, but hey, at least that merits me being part of the discussion. Also I have coordinated a few smaller cons AMV contest - mostly Kintoki in it's first years - so I know first hand how hard it is to get entries if you are a new contest and no one knows about you.

I do think trolling is an annoyance, and in some ways can be seen as a problem. But I think regulating it is gonna be even more of a problem. Pretty much for everything that has been said -- Bigger Cons like Otakon, Boston, AX ect have the ability to put harder limits on freshness but for smaller cons they really want those videos because it draws in the crowds. And I think that is fair, cause if you think about it contests that are largely audience decided should be about the audience. There are plenty of contests (AWA Pro, Akross, Big Contest etc) where you can be judged on the merits of your editing. Those should be about the editors. But when it's audience decided should be about the audience.

People like to complain about audiences and that they don't know a good video from their left foot. Ie they will pick the most pandery videos and just ignore ones that are clearly much better edited etc etc. But here's the thing - when you enter you know it's gonna be the audience deciding. It's an audience driven contest. Audiences want to see those videos, because most of them haven't seen them before. And the only reasons those videos have won so much is because they are the ones the audiences love. I tend to skew with Bashar on this point. In the end for me it's about the audience. It's about the audience being entertained.

So if it can't be on the con's to regulate trolling it should be on the editors right? That won't really work either. For starters I don't think we could ever decide on a concrete number of awards to constitute trolling. Like lets say past 6 awards a video should be retired. Are all awards created equal? Is winning 3 Best in Shows the same as winning 3 category awards? What about factoring in how long a video took you to make. If you spend 6 months creating a video, should you be able to send it to more cons? What if you made 6 hell style videos in 6 months and just sent those everywhere. What if you send your videos to 6 small contests. Should that be weighed the same as if you send them to some of the bigger ones? In many cases I have had coordinators message me asking me to enter my videos - as they are seeking entries and have seen mine elsewhere. Can that be considered trolling? And overall the problem with self imposed rules is that in the end always gonna be people who break them - knowingly or unknowingly.

I don't think trolling is ever gonna be solved imo. If you get rid of trolling you probably will take out many small contests at tiny conventions as well. It's a necessary evil. So my suggestion is you jump up the root of the issue and take actions to fix the negative repercussions of trolling. Trolling means less recognition for other videos. I think the best way to solve this would be adding extra awards. For example at Boston they have an Editors Choice. This allows videos that are well edited to be recognized, above all the pandery poorly edited videos. I was really pleased this year that Anime California had entrants put their AMV level on the forms (Novice, Journeyman or Master) decided on how many awards you have won. Then they gave awards to the best novice video editor, best journeyman and best master. This imo is a great way to create a fair playing field for newer editors, so that they can compete in an environment that is more skewed to their level.

Once again though this is on the coordinators.And really depends on how many awards they can offer. In the end though it's always a competition. The best video isn't always gonna be your video - and more often or not in audience contests it isn't even the best edited video. It's just the one that jived with the crowd the most. And it can be really frustrating when you feel like the video that isn't as well edited as yours wins - Or a video that has won so many other awards.