Anti-Trolling rule needs to take affect more?

[BasharOfTheAges]

If all it did was cut down on the number of Otakon entries, people wouldn't care. It does more than that. It harms other contests.

By the same line of reasoning, Akross, Japan Expo and AWA Pro hurt other contests too. Part of what makes these contests special and / or competitive is that you can't send your normal entries to these contests, you've got to send something new or exclusive. Do you think they should change their rules too?

They're all sorta self contained and don't even pretend to be open contests.

[BasharOfTheAges]

If all it did was cut down on the number of Otakon entries, people wouldn't care. It does more than that. It harms other contests.

By the same line of reasoning, Akross, Japan Expo and AWA Pro hurt other contests too. Part of what makes these contests special and / or competitive is that you can't send your normal entries to these contests, you've got to send something new or exclusive. Do you think they should change their rules too?

They're all sorta self contained and don't even pretend to be open contests.

To clarify (for Akross and AWA-Pro in particular) by open, I mean they aren't really contests. They're not screened at a con as a voting event. They might as well not exist from an audience perspective.

From a "sucking out the creative juices of the editing population and thus depriving other cons of those videos for the purposes of exclusivitiy" point of view, yes, they are the same as Otakon. They are equally hurting in that regard. The way they go about it feels more honest though. They are what they are - unapologetically. They don't pretend to not be.

[Ileia]

To be fair, those contests aren't really bogarting the creativity entirely since a number of the entries end up at other conventions later. Exclusivity just means that it's there first. After the results are posted, it's free game.

[XStylus]

From a "sucking out the creative juices of the editing population and thus depriving other cons of those videos for the purposes of exclusivitiy" point of view, yes, they are the same as Otakon. They are equally hurting in that regard. The way they go about it feels more honest though. They are what they are - unapologetically. They don't pretend to not be.

JX, Akross, and the AMVNews.ru "Big Contest" cater to different communities. There's not a lot of cross pollination between the American AMV community and the European community. Some, but not a lot. Also, Europe doesn't have an overabundance of conventions with AMV events every weekend of the year, each vying for fresh entries.

But perhaps therein lies part of the problem with the American AMV community. It's hugely HUGELY over-served, and it's causing stagnation. Perhaps there are too many AMV events, especially since most don't really do anything that different from other AMV events.

[XStylus]

To be fair, those contests aren't really bogarting the creativity entirely since a number of the entries end up at other conventions later. Exclusivity just means that it's there first. After the results are posted, it's free game.

The gripe is that the events that run just prior to an event with a first-run rule (or a watered down version like Otakon's one-win rule) end up getting stuck with 10-month old vids that by then have been played to death.

[Ileia]

To be fair, those contests aren't really bogarting the creativity entirely since a number of the entries end up at other conventions later. Exclusivity just means that it's there first. After the results are posted, it's free game.

The gripe is that the events that run just prior to an event with a first-run rule (or a watered down version like Otakon's one-win rule) end up getting stuck with 10-month old vids that by then have been played to death.

You answered it yourself in your post - those contests are mostly European. Those editors weren't making videos specifically for US contests anyway, they enter them because they already have them made.

[dragontamer5788]

If all it did was cut down on the number of Otakon entries, people wouldn't care. It does more than that. It harms other contests.

I get the basis of your argument: people are encouraged to submit Otakon exclusive (or Otakon-premiered) videos which "sucks out" AMVs from other contests. So at least in theory, your argument makes sense.

But in practice, empirical evidence does not support your assertion. The best example of this is Anime Expo. Most importantly, Anime Expo is not affected by Otakon's trolling rule, so any editor who is "gaming the system" is allowed to submit to both Anime Expo and Otakon. If the Trolling rule were affecting a lot of cons, you'd expect to see a large amount of overlap between Anime Expo and Otakon (Editors would think: Hey look, I can submit to both Otakon and Anime Expo and not worry about the Trolling rule!)

The results? Well... why don't you look at the 2014 finalist list and see for yourself.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/v ... 9#p1521609
http://board.otakon.com/index.php?showt ... 6&p=294711

Here's the list of "shared" videos amongst the finalists:
* Edge of Walpurgis (Tsu)
* Lifeline (Hagaren Viper)

Everything else seems to be an Otakon-premiered video (or at least, they didn't wish to submit to Anime Expo). Basically, a large number of people will want to make Otakon-exclusive or Otakon-premiered videos anyway, even without the trolling rule in place. And based on the 6 or 7 trolls in the 2014 contest, those who are affected by the trolling rule don't seem to care to submit another video of theirs, so they aren't really in it to "game for awards".

Basically, the contests barely have any overlap as it is... and for the editors who do submit to multiple contests, it doesn't seem like they're in it to game for awards (or else they'd have changed their video after winning an award). I don't think people are affected by the trolling rule as much as you think they are.

[Scintilla]

But in practice, empirical evidence does not support your assertion. The best example of this is Anime Expo. Most importantly, Anime Expo is not affected by Otakon's trolling rule, so any editor who is "gaming the system" is allowed to submit to both Anime Expo and Otakon. If the Trolling rule were affecting a lot of cons, you'd expect to see a large amount of overlap between Anime Expo and Otakon (Editors would think: Hey look, I can submit to both Otakon and Anime Expo and not worry about the Trolling rule!)

The results? Well... why don't you look at the 2014 finalist list and see for yourself.

The problem with this approach is that it ignores videos like mine that were sent to both cons but didn't make finals at one or the other (in my case, I broke at Otakon but not AX).

... and for the editors who do submit to multiple contests, it doesn't seem like they're in it to game for awards (or else they'd have changed their video after winning an award).

Wait. If you were trying to win lots of awards, and you had a video that was good enough to win one, why would you change it?

Unless you're talking about making it materially different to the point where it can be considered no longer the same video and therefore not in violation of anti-trolling rules...?

[Lirinis]

To clarify (for Akross and AWA-Pro in particular) by open, I mean they aren't really contests. They're not screened at a con as a voting event. They might as well not exist from an audience perspective.

Lol, we on our side tend to think about contests at conventions as not real contests because of loose uncompetetive rules, lack of decent rivals, and laughable ways of judging.

They might as well not exist from an audience perspective.

What?

From a "sucking out the creative juices of the editing population and thus depriving other cons of those videos for the purposes of exclusivitiy" point of view, yes, they are the same as Otakon. They are equally hurting in that regard. The way they go about it feels more honest though. They are what they are - unapologetically. They don't pretend to not be.

For Akross and AMVNews Big Contest I can say that they are contests in so to say "athletic" sense. Quite the opposite of "mom'ish everybody-deserves-to-win mindset". Therefore it's crucial that all participants are in equal conditions. The only way to achieve this is exclusivity. Not that we want to hurt anybody.

Europe doesn't have an overabundance of conventions with AMV events every weekend of the year, each vying for fresh entries.

But perhaps therein lies part of the problem with the American AMV community. It's hugely HUGELY over-served, and it's causing stagnation. Perhaps there are too many AMV events, especially since most don't really do anything that different from other AMV events.

Looks like that.

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Lol, we on our side tend to think about contests at conventions as not real contests because of loose uncompetetive rules, lack of decent rivals, and laughable ways of judging.

I have respect for well run contests regardless if at a convention or online. I sure hope that view is not seen as a general view of Contest at Cons.

Vlad