Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
- DJ_Izumi
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
So AMV's got me into this whole visual effects industry I work in now. I've rotoscoped and composited and done crazy things for AAA feature films so naturally I should do more of that, in my unpaid leisure time, and try to take a stab at applying all of to an AMV. After seeing the trailer for 'Ready Player One' I realized what I needed to do: The most epic rotoscoped and recomposited AMV trailer ever. So started trying to build a suitable workflow this week and have been experimenting with some more basic shot ideas. This is just a simple effort to isolate a character animation loop but also play with what I think are shortcomings in other videos such as color correction, proper edging, light wraps, black levels, and such. To really try and build very cohesive new compositions for nearly every shot. Though the real challenge will come with 100 character epic battle scenes. Oh that'll be a lot of cards...
I realize most people use After Effects but since I use NukeX professionally, I'm using that at home. It helps to have some 10 000 hours of Nuke experience on my resume and frankly I've literally done shots professionally that would have required 50-100 pre-comps in AE.
Background in this test is a placeholder cause midnight approached.
And if anyone is interested in knowing what the Nodegraph for something like this involves:
I realize most people use After Effects but since I use NukeX professionally, I'm using that at home. It helps to have some 10 000 hours of Nuke experience on my resume and frankly I've literally done shots professionally that would have required 50-100 pre-comps in AE.
Background in this test is a placeholder cause midnight approached.
And if anyone is interested in knowing what the Nodegraph for something like this involves:
- DJ_Izumi
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
- lloyd9988
- Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 4:57 pm
- Location: AZ
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
As someone who pops in and out of here and knows the pains of rotoscoping, I must say that is pretty damn good especially since the background behind her is nearly the same color.
You said you used NukeX to do this?
You said you used NukeX to do this?
-
- Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:54 am
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
God, thank you!!!
Finally someone using a node-based compositor for AMVs!
I thought I was the only one! I'm sick of After Effects!
And since I've moved to node-based compositing I really didn't want to go back to the ugly, inefficient After Effects layer-based style.
I'm using Blackmagic Design's Fusion.
I wanted to use Nuke, but I found it absolutely unsuitable for motion graphics stuff, so I had to turn to Fusion.
And it has indeed way better tools for motion graphics than Nuke.
Can I ask you a question:
How did you handle the changing hair of the character?
When I tried to do rotoscoping in Fusion, I had to make a completely new mask, if something changes in such a way, that I had to remove or add points in the mask.
In Fusion you can't just add or remove points in a mask. It will affect the complete mask on all other frames as well. So it's not like in Vegas, where the number of points in a mask can change from frame to frame.
That means in fusion I had tons of masks. Like one for frames 1 through 10, then a slightly different one for frames 11 to 12, etc. And I have to manually blend all these masks together (defining when they should be visible and when not). To me, that seemed like quite a lot fo work. Is Nuke also like that? How did you do it?
Finally someone using a node-based compositor for AMVs!
I thought I was the only one! I'm sick of After Effects!
And since I've moved to node-based compositing I really didn't want to go back to the ugly, inefficient After Effects layer-based style.
I'm using Blackmagic Design's Fusion.
I wanted to use Nuke, but I found it absolutely unsuitable for motion graphics stuff, so I had to turn to Fusion.
And it has indeed way better tools for motion graphics than Nuke.
Can I ask you a question:
How did you handle the changing hair of the character?
When I tried to do rotoscoping in Fusion, I had to make a completely new mask, if something changes in such a way, that I had to remove or add points in the mask.
In Fusion you can't just add or remove points in a mask. It will affect the complete mask on all other frames as well. So it's not like in Vegas, where the number of points in a mask can change from frame to frame.
That means in fusion I had tons of masks. Like one for frames 1 through 10, then a slightly different one for frames 11 to 12, etc. And I have to manually blend all these masks together (defining when they should be visible and when not). To me, that seemed like quite a lot fo work. Is Nuke also like that? How did you do it?
- DJ_Izumi
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
I'm using NukeX Non-Commercial at home since the software is uhm... $8000. Non-Commercial is limited to rendering bounding boxes of only 1920x1080 which is a limitation when I'm trying to stabelize large pans into a single image but it makes I can get away with not pirating any software. ...First time I've ever done that.lloyd9988 wrote:As someone who pops in and out of here and knows the pains of rotoscoping, I must say that is pretty damn good especially since the background behind her is nearly the same color.
You said you used NukeX to do this?
- DJ_Izumi
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
The most important thing about rotoscoping is to not just do the WHOLE character as one roto shape. Cut the character into chunks. I can't recall if Fusion allows rotos to only exist for certian framerates but that's what I'm using in NukeX. I do differnet areas as chunks and if some chunks, like hair, disappear for some framerages I just make that roto shape stop existing.maumau90 wrote:God, thank you!!!
Finally someone using a node-based compositor for AMVs!
I thought I was the only one! I'm sick of After Effects!
And since I've moved to node-based compositing I really didn't want to go back to the ugly, inefficient After Effects layer-based style.
I'm using Blackmagic Design's Fusion.
I wanted to use Nuke, but I found it absolutely unsuitable for motion graphics stuff, so I had to turn to Fusion.
And it has indeed way better tools for motion graphics than Nuke.
Can I ask you a question:
How did you handle the changing hair of the character?
When I tried to do rotoscoping in Fusion, I had to make a completely new mask, if something changes in such a way, that I had to remove or add points in the mask.
In Fusion you can't just add or remove points in a mask. It will affect the complete mask on all other frames as well. So it's not like in Vegas, where the number of points in a mask can change from frame to frame.
That means in fusion I had tons of masks. Like one for frames 1 through 10, then a slightly different one for frames 11 to 12, etc. And I have to manually blend all these masks together (defining when they should be visible and when not). To me, that seemed like quite a lot fo work. Is Nuke also like that? How did you do it?
Here's an example, notice on the right side panel where you can see some of the roto shapes are set to 'all' (all frames), certian frame ranges, and some use a number with a - like 17- which means 'From Frame X Until End' or 'From Start Until This Frame' depending on configuration.
I also want to share a way to fix up lines. Normally in a LOT of AMVs with rotos it's hard to get nice, crisp, black edges. I came up with a treatment to fix that and it should be doable in Fusion too. Probably AE if you like precomps. (This is why AE is bad for this stuff. I can do things in nodes that would take multiple precomps)
Here we see the orignal plate from SAO II. We can see Kirito has another character in the shot and parts of that color will likely fill in:
Here is Kirito Roto'd and premulted on a grid and you can see edge colors bleeding in. This is how most rotos in AMVs look because it's REALLY hard to get a 100% accurate roto:
Let's use a quick setup to get rid of that. This setup takes the roto we made for kiroto, inverts the alpha channel, then erodes and blurs it slighthly, then uses that to put a constant (Solid color) sampled from the darkest part of Kirito, basically the same color as his line art. You'd think it should be 'Black' but it's not, it's a little lighter and not purely monochrome. So I sampled it. But basically we are filling everything BUT Kirito with that color and going in OVER Kirito's edges. But he's a cartoon with a black outline so we'll give him a NEW thicker outline basically and cover any odd colors at his edges. Once that's done we just premult him and merge him over a background, in this case our grid, like we would before.
What's our result? Here's the same premult of Kirito now that we filled everything but him with that color. Lovely nice thick black anime lines. It not longer looks like we cut him out of anything and instead looks like we have an original asset to comp with. This is a simple setup of a few nodes and uses the roto you already spent time on but makes a huge improvement over what's typically seen in AMVs that employ rotos:
- DJ_Izumi
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
The forum is likely resizing those images and making them hard to read, you can see the IMGUR gallery here:
https://imgur.com/a/mY4BA
https://imgur.com/a/mY4BA
- DJ_Izumi
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
Meanwhile, what am I doing with that roto above? While asside from defocusing the bejebus out of Kirito rendering the blank lines a bit moot, I'm throwing a party.
Here is a shot from the first ep of Gundam 00, I just wanted this big room to use as a background. Sadly it's full of characters and even has FG characters. So I had to cleanplate ALL of them out.
And this is currently the result. We have Kirito in the FG and a totally repainted BG. New colors. Anime on the 'screens'. (Notice how it's reflecting off the floor and glowing at the edges. However this is FAR from done. ...I now need to populate that room with about 50 random anime characters... That's a lot of rotoscoping... It'll take some time. So like, unless anyone has questions... I'll be rotoscoping characters for the next two months. ...All this for a four second shot.
Here is a shot from the first ep of Gundam 00, I just wanted this big room to use as a background. Sadly it's full of characters and even has FG characters. So I had to cleanplate ALL of them out.
And this is currently the result. We have Kirito in the FG and a totally repainted BG. New colors. Anime on the 'screens'. (Notice how it's reflecting off the floor and glowing at the edges. However this is FAR from done. ...I now need to populate that room with about 50 random anime characters... That's a lot of rotoscoping... It'll take some time. So like, unless anyone has questions... I'll be rotoscoping characters for the next two months. ...All this for a four second shot.
- Mol
- Strawberry Pie
- Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:28 am
- Status: sutatS
- Location: Sweden
- Contact:
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
Mhm so basically you copy paste mask + inverse some to give it extra edge ? Might as well try, when i come back to maksing again xd. I guess nuke has it's pluses too
- DJ_Izumi
- Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:29 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Re: Hold my Beer: Next Level Rotoscoping
Yeah, there's def nothing rocket sciency about it, just filling the outside with the same color as the lineart before actually cutting it out proper.Mol wrote:Mhm so basically you copy paste mask + inverse some to give it extra edge ? Might as well try, when i come back to maksing again xd. I guess nuke has it's pluses too
Keep in mind there's a lot you can do with other software. I'm using NukeX at home since I use NukeX at work all day working in VFX. So using the same software I use professionally makes it a lot easier.
Fusion is also available, it's a bit more simple than Nuke and lacks the crazy stupid advanced features (That you'd not really need for an AMV anyway) and it has a free version. Nuke Non-Commercial is also free but the commercial license well, those are stupid expensive and I'd be shocked to see someone buy or license it for an AMV. I mean, I'm a professional VFX artist and even I can think of better ways to spend that money. I'd have to be freelancing from home before I paid for a commercial Nuke license.