State of the Viewers Choice Awards

[Kireblue]

I'm against this judges based system as well as not being able to enter your own AMVs. It will only further improve the circle jerk. RIP

By "enter your own AMVs", do you mean nominate videos that you've made? Or do you mean nominate videos in general? If you mean to generally add videos, you're able to do so by simply posting them in the nomination threads here: viewforum.php?f=138 . Every video that is posted in those threads will be added to the voting pool for round one. Then you'll be able to vote to advance them to the following rounds. The purpose of the judges isn't to take away the ability for you to add videos. Instead, they simply add videos to the round 2 voting pool in addition to the ones voted on by the community.

If you mean adding the videos that you've personally made, you can post them in the Shameless Self Promotion thread. Videos posted in this thread won't be immediately added to the round 1 voting pool, but everyone will be able to see them, and have the ability to cross post them in the appropriate category nomination threads. Also, the judges will be able to reference the videos posted in the Self Promotion thread when deciding on what they'd like to add to the voting pool.

If you'd like a more detailed summary of the changes that we've made this year, here is the 2018 VCA Updates, Questions & Feedback Thread.

[Cenit]

I mean specifically that i now have to wait for someone to suggest all my AMV in EVERY category they could possibly compete and then hope that your judges approve of them. Until now every AMV of the year could compete for the veiwers affection in almost every category by default. The org forum is dead like almost all forums. In the last year there were maybe 10 people active in these threads. In MEP last year it was MAYBE 2. So if they all return there's about 10 people suggesting AMVs, eight of them studio members of pixel blended. How did you not think about this? How is this even a Viewers Choice award? This is the worst possible scenario you could have chosen. I have no idea why Phade handed the Org to you. If you want to improve/save the VCAs have it so that all videos can be voted for. There is no value in this new award system and you will fail hard!

[Kireblue]

You brought up a number of different points, and so I'll respond the them individually

I mean specifically that i now have to wait for someone to suggest all my AMV in EVERY category they could possibly compete and then hope that your judges approve of them.

If anyone suggests any of your video, they are automatically added to the round 1 pool. The judges aren't denying videos as long as they were made in the right time span 01/01/17- 12/31/17.

Until now every AMV of the year could compete for the veiwers affection in almost every category by default.

That statement is technically correct, but it does leave out the fact that only videos cataloged on the org were allowed to compete. I believe that part of the reason why a number of people started loosing interest in the VCAs is because they felt that the Org's catalog wasn't a adequate representation of the vast number of videos that are made every year. Some of the best videos often times never got cataloged and were never eligible to be voted on at all. And so I thought up this new system as a means to be more inclusive to those videos and try to restore the notion that the VCAs are a credible representation of the best AMVs from the previous year.

In the last year there were maybe 10 people active in these threads. In MEP last year it was MAYBE 2. So if they all return there's about 10 people suggesting AMVs, eight of them studio members of pixel blended.

I don't think you actually know who the members of PixelBlended Studios are. For reference, there are 10 members in the studio, and only only 2 of us actually posted in any of the nomination threads last year. If you don't believe me, you can see for yourself here viewforum.php?f=132 .

The org forum is dead like almost all forums. In the last year there were maybe 10 people active in these threads. In MEP last year it was MAYBE 2. So if they all return there's about 10 people suggesting AMVs. How did you not think about this? How is this even a Viewers Choice award? This is the worst possible scenario you could have chosen. If you want to improve/save the VCAs have it so that all videos can be voted for. There is no value in this new award system and you will fail hard!

I did think about all of that. In fact, that's actually one of the main reasons why i felt that a pool of well knowledgeable judges was necessary. My hope is that since the nomination process actually affects the first round of voting, it will serve as an incentive for more people to post in the threads than previous years. I see that you didn't post anything in the forum nomination threads last year (even with the old system), and so if you'd like the VCAs to continue, then I encourage you to actually participate in them. Whether the forum nominations work or not, we'll just have to see. But if they don't, then the role of the judges will be to supplement the voting pool list with videos that they feel deserve a place in the semifinals. And again, all of this is for the purpose of making the VCAs more inclusive. With the old voting system, it simply wasn't possible to modify it so that non cataloged videos could compete.

I have no idea why Phade handed the Org to you.

I haven't spoken to Phade in a really long time. And so he hasn't actually handed anything to me. And from what I can tell, he wasn't involved in the decision to make me a admin either. So there's that.... But regardless, I try my best to do anything and everything that I can for the org. If I told you how much time I spend every single day maintaining the site, I'm sure that you wouldn't believe me, or you'd think that I was exaggerating. I can hardly believe it myself.

But if you feel that the decisions that I've made aren't for the benefit of the site, then i encourage you to make suggestions of your own or offer to help out. When I started the AMV Monthly Newsletter last year, my main goal was to get more members engaged and interested in helping the community. But unfortunately, not a lot of people showed interest in helping maintain them, and so I had to put that project on hold. But if you're interested in helping out with that, then maybe we can start it up again.

[GloryQuestor]

The org forum is dead like almost all forums. ... I have no idea why Phade handed the Org to you.

I thought I should comment on this in a broad sense, as well, even though this is going to get a bit OT. First, I am still the one in charge of the Org in Phade's stead. As the person in charge, I did approach kireblue (and others) and asked if they would help us out, which they agreed to.

I keep hearing the "forums are dead" issue over and over, when in fact, we have others who have actually thanked us for still having a forum. The forum still serves as an "archive" of various types, from video techniques to anime & music discussions going back a very long time. Many conventions have given up on forums, and as you can see, contest coordinators have not stopped using the forums as a hub to reach out to AMV creators of all types and to keep a more "permanent" record of their contest results.

The continuance of the forums is not really a sign of stagnation, as we actually changed steadily in key places over a long while now. For many years after this site started, there was no web-based uploading option, previews, star system ... heck, we did not even have "quick comments" until the need was there. The Org has also embraced social media, even though Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and other types of social media are largely fire-and-forget, with information that could be consumed and lost at any time outside of our control. Going back OT, the new VCA structure is simply another in a long line of new steps, a work-in-progress meant to reach out and include a larger community of creators out there, centralizing them yet again.

The Org remains here because we do change and grow as times grow, and we do have a lot of people who still believe in us and support us. We do not aim to please everyone all the time, but we are still here for the creators, the contestants, and the fans old and new.

[Cenit]

I keep hearing the "forums are dead" issue over and over, when in fact, we have others who have actually thanked us for still having a forum.

It’s super awesome that Kionon at some point thanked you that the forum is still around but he and your other mods are basically the only "community" left. You’re ignoring the core issues:

You’re forcing people to use a forum they don’t like to nominate videos of their friends. You’re taking away the one reason I still upload to the Org, i.e. all my AMVs can auto participate in the VCA. You require each AMV to be nominated in each category instead of one nomination unlocking all possible categories. Last year some AMVs were in the finals of about 12-13 categories. There would have to be about 100 people actively nominating AMVs to consider all possibilities. But these forums are used by maybe 10. Nominations have always been the weakest phase of the VCAs every year. Whenever there was drama as to why video X wasn’t in the finals it could be traced back to nominations phase missing participation from enough people. Activity is at an all-time low. So now you’re fixing the nominations by forcing forum participation, removing all valid Org uploads and having judges do pre-selections.

It’s pretty clear that these are not the VCAs as we know it. It’s not even a viewers choice award to begin with. It’s the Staff Choice Awards. Or maybe the PixelBlended awards. It has as much value as the Souls Team IC results. I told you before that judges is a bad idea. But you decided to push your whacky JCAs unchanged regardless of any valid criticism. You can still do changes though. Open up the system so that all catalog entries created in 2017 can participate in the voting.

The Org remains here because we do change and grow as times grow, and we do have a lot of people who still believe in us and support us.

The Org is dead and you killed it. As a former donator and strong supporter of the project i blame you directly. You lack leadership and vision. Phade did a subpar job after 2005, especially in regards to opening up the Org to YouTube. But making you lead admin was his worst decision by far.

[Mol]

I was a bit hoping that it would utilse listing in some way too, and we would get access to post yt stuff as extra D: Too many amvs being made are a bit of problem for such votings but i think the listings don't contain that much as in some years back.

I still wait for simplified drop down menus for org mainpage in a way where it would be easier to find stuff :'(

[Kireblue]

You’re forcing people to use a forum they don’t like to nominate videos of their friends. You’re taking away the one reason I still upload to the Org, i.e. all my AMVs can auto participate in the VCA. You require each AMV to be nominated in each category instead of one nomination unlocking all possible categories. Last year some AMVs were in the finals of about 12-13 categories. There would have to be about 100 people actively nominating AMVs to consider all possibilities. But these forums are used by maybe 10. Nominations have always been the weakest phase of the VCAs every year. Whenever there was drama as to why video X wasn’t in the finals it could be traced back to nominations phase missing participation from enough people. Activity is at an all-time low. So now you’re fixing the nominations by forcing forum participation, removing all valid Org uploads and having judges do pre-selections.

Have submission forms. Everybody can submit videos of their own. All submissions get judged by the viewers in the first round. Maybe have some judges to submit good videos missing from the list. But every AMV entered should be allowed to participate in the first round, regardless if it's part of the catalog or not.

Have you not realized that I pretty much went with your suggestion? Also, a video isn't required to be nominated in every category. Just like you suggested that we do, we "have some judges to submit good videos missing from the list". Other people had suggested parts of this idea before you, but your input is what tipped the scale towards this decision. So thank you for that.

An alternative to the Crunchyroll format is the way that r/anime on reddit is doing awards. From what I understand, they have popular vote determine three entries for a category, and then a panel of judges selects three additional entries for the category. So half are by popular vote, and half are jury selected. Then voting happens like you suggested.

I think this is a good idea. To just have judges choose the entrants gives a lot of space for bias, and I think one of the good things about the viewers' awards is the community involvement.

I think that the best way is to find a way to people to propose videos ( i just can't came out with a smart idea btw), collect the most shared opinion and then let a jury( made by selected people from different countries) decide. In that way we can listen to every single people who want to vote, but be fair in the final judgment using ( I hope) super partes judges that should just think about the awards interest.

Since so many people have been suggesting this in various forms, I decided to rack my brain a little harder to find a way to combine your ideas into a compromise/ solution. Her'es what I came up with. Since allowing the community to vote on a list of every single AMV made in 2017 is impossible, how about I create a list that consists of only the videos that get posted in the suggestion threads? Whenever someone posts a link to "suggest" a video, I'll update the google form by the end of the day to include it. I'll also turn on the feature that allows users to change their votes if a video gets added later on that wasn't available at the start. The top 6-8 videos will automatically make it to the next round, and the judges will be responsible for nominating 6-8 more videos. The judges will also kick out any videos that get voted on by the community that absolutely doesn't fit a category (like a pure romance video getting trollishly voted on for action)

This idea is pretty much exactly what MadMegatax suggested combined with a manual version of spoondiddly's database suggestion. I think that it was Cenit's way of wording his post that made me think that maybe it wasn't as impossible as i initially thought. This will cause just a little more work on my part, but nothing more than what I was already prepared to do. So what do you guys think? or

[Cenit]

You removed every entry from the Org Catalog. From an Org contest. It would be cool if your judges added missing videos from YouTube. But only if the whole catalog was still there to chose from.

[Kireblue]

You removed every entry from the Org Catalog. From an Org contest. It would be cool if your judges added missing videos from YouTube. But only if the whole catalog was still there to chose from.

Adding in all 1,189 videos that were cataloged last year to each category voting form would be a almost impossible task. But if there are videos cataloged on the site that you feel deserve a nomination, then feel free to post them in the category threads. Here is the link to the filtered search function so that you only see the 2017 videos 2017 Cataloged Videos

This is currently the only way to allow every video that was created in 2017 a equal opportunity to participate.

[Cenit]

Nope. Put all my AMVs in all categorys they could possibly compete in. They're in the catalog, you can find them easily. I worked hard on each and everyone of them. They absolutely deserve to be nominees. Even if they don't. Do this for everyone who asks for it. Then change the name to Staff Choice Awards. I think that is all that can be done with this current system.

What i was suggesting were submission forms. For me to add cool shit that is missing from the catalog. OR if you have to remove the entire catalog, for me to throw my own hat in the ring. Because these are supposed to be the VCAs, not the friendship awards.

feel free to post them in the category threads.

Not doing this. No matter how much i love an AMV i would never suggest it for 12 categories. There's no one that needs my affection that badly. But i would very well vote for a single AMV in 12 categories, given how bad the other options are.