Something extremely controversial... Do NOT FLAME...

Cardinal.jpg · Post by **Cardinal.jpg** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:57 am

Just aside from the God issue, something that really gets me is that last Friday a train crashed very near to Sydney killing nine people. Then on Saunday news of the Columbia exploding and killing seven arrives. I don't know how well you got coverage of the train crash but we sure as hell are getting a lot of coverage of the Columbia "disaster". Now who is to say which people are better, I don't think anyone can say that nine deaths is less important than seven and also the fact that the ratio of people catching trains to shuttles is enormous. But apparently a something happening in America is obviously more tragic than a serious saftey issue in Australia, also over January almost half a state burnt to the ground in bush fires killing four.

I don't see what makes the Colmbia incident more fo tragedy than the death that occurs throughout the rest of the world and how this could even relate to a God. I fail to realise why God would influence minor issues such as seven or nine dying when nothing is apparently being done about the rest of the worlds deaths.

Also I have not eradicated the possibility of a supreme being from my mind, I just do not subscribe to it at the moment, also I feel that organised religion is more propaganda than belief. Belief is fine but trying to convert others against their will is bullshit.

RurouniKakita · Post by **RurouniKakita** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 9:31 am

My thought on religion are as follows.

IF God does exist then the bible is sort of wrong. The way i see it is according to the rules God set in the bible then Humans shouldn't be here as we are very very bad things and he should have destroyed us many times over. But since humans still exist then either there is no God or He thinks that Humans are good to live on His planet.

Also I one of the types who have to see most things to beleive them, and God has yet to show Himself or any evidence that He's there.

On an Off Topic note:

As i was reading your post Klinky i hit the word "gah" just as you animated Misato avatar(sp?) pulled back. sorta freaky.

SSJVegita0609 · Post by **SSJVegita0609** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:50 am

People may believe what they want, but I as of now am undecided.

fyrtenheimer · Post by **fyrtenheimer** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:17 pm

CollegeGundam wrote:My thought on religion are as follows.

IF God does exist then the bible is sort of wrong. The way i see it is according to the rules God set in the bible then Humans shouldn't be here as we are very very bad things and he should have destroyed us many times over. But since humans still exist then either there is no God or He thinks that Humans are good to live on His planet.

Also I one of the types who have to see most things to beleive them, and God has yet to show Himself or any evidence that He's there.

did you read the bible?
AT ALL?!

and i'm sure if God came down and striked you with a sugar packet you'd believe in him then

it's all about Faith, you believe, or you don't, it's that simple

btw, how many religion threads are we GONNA HAVE?!

MAS PRODUCTIONS · Post by **MAS PRODUCTIONS** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:39 pm

Do I believe in god? No I dont. It is extremely hard to believe that their is a supreme being of any kind.

Do I believe in heaven or Hell? Well if I dont believe in any kind of god how could I believe in heaven or hell. When we die thats it, its all over so I say enjoy your run at life while you can.

Religion in general? Its ok if you believe in a religion if it helps you live your life to your fullest, if:

1. Dont push your view points on others, just the same as you believe in your religion, others believe in theirs; you have no right to tell them they are wrong since they are just as right as you are.

2. Dont think about what happens when you die. If you live your life worried about death, you wont live your life.

3. Dont justicify your actions because you say that god or ala or whatever told you too. THATS JUST STUPID.

4. If people talk to god all the time like they say they do, what does he or she or it sound like? Thats what I thought!

5. Dont believe that miracles just happen. People make miracles happen. If we just sat around praying for things to happen, nothing would happen. There is always a reason that something happens and its not because some invisible being made it happen.

As far as the religion threads go, there is indeed too many of them for a topic that no one can prove wrong or right. If there is indeed a god than great but if there isn't dont be disappointed. On the subject of an after life, from my view point there is no after life and I am fine with that, I wish there were but my logical brain tells me, NO. The only chance of an after life I can imagine is possibly digital. For those who watched the "Scratch" episode of Cowboy Bebop, I believe that it makes several valid points about religion. When man first gained the ability to think he was too smart so whenever something happened it was much easier to say it was done by something "magical" than to think why it happened.

Anyways thats what I think.

OmniStrata · Post by **OmniStrata** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:21 pm

Daymn...

We got some pretty strong VOICES in here...

I'm no freakin' Jehovah's witness if that's what some of you are considering...

[sadly, Christianity and derivatives thereof is the only religion that actively goes out "hunting" for converts...]

But... We are too scientific these days, I guess I can turn this subject down a notch and say, does Magic exist? The turn out answer can be the same... As... does God exist?

People will come up with ways to disprove such things and say "no that can't be possible because (post facts here)" just so they can make the "believers" appear false and then feel superior because they think science is always correct...

OR...

Once in a while, an event occurs where science can't possibly explain it and the "truth tellers" are struck dumbfounded and confused where as the faithful ones in magic have something to prove as well...

I'm for the latter. I guess one has to SEE an act of God before believing it I guess. That's kind of sad the way I see it. What act's of God have I seen?

There's this cemetary located a bit north from where I live. [when I say "bit" I'm talking dozens of miles] and once a year (spontaneous), a VERY odd event occurs. ->

There is a tree there. A very old tree with a knothole (place where branch was ripped) By looking at it, one sees a white barked tree missing a branch... No biggie, who cares right? For some fucked up reason, when you take a video cam or photo camera and look at the tree, you WILL see a picture perfectly posed on where the BRANCH should be, the virgin Mary... [I swear on my life on this... I shit you not...]

Then [as a 5 yr old kid] I said, bah, "if it's only once a year, how come it's only in our camera's?" I'd ask... "Haunted spirit" perhaps? Some people tried to explain via "light sourcing" and such, but the fact of the matter is, there is a freakin' PERSON where a PERSON shouldn't be and it's in EVERYONE'S camera...

I guess you really have to "be there" to understand what I mean... ^_^

This thing has very barely grown into a flame war. Please be careful what you say... Just cause one believes in God or Gods doesn't make one weak. In fact, I didn't say anyone who did NOT believe in God was a devil or anything... So please don't say such hurtful things...

RadicalEd0 · Post by **RadicalEd0** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:50 pm

this topic isn't gonna lead to any arguments like others have, people assert their views, nobody criticizes others. Nobody takes offense.

I subscribe to theosophy, a set of beliefs set up over the foundation of extremely ancient hindu, buddhist, and archaic root truths. Theosophy is really an umbrella term that incorporates esoteric wisdom, occultism, metaphysics all into one melting pot of truths.

Anyway if you really want to know the basis of this stuff read Some Basic Concepts of Theosophy it shouldnt take too long :\

I've got more (solid, mind you, not based on some magical revelation) reasons than I could explain for why I subscribe to the information provided in this study, but I will say its the first "religion" (which I can't really rightfully call it) I've studied that actually makes more intuitive sense to the scheme of things than atheism + science.

Oh yeah, the original question was about god.
Well I believe there is no god. No all powerful being god, no heaven he dwells in nor a satan in his hell. I believe in the collective soul of the universe, and that all spirit expands and returns every cycle (the unvierse goes from stages of dormant sleep to stages of hard physical matter and back again, even scientifically in the big bang and crunch).
It's all levels of abstraction between the highest plane of pure spirit and the dual separatedness of the lowest plane (physical, this one). As thought takes form and as the universe expands from spirit into matter each cycle, it is asserted that intelligent creative forces take part in the process, the 'gods' if you will. But still nothing like the image of a god that most people are used to.
Semitics tend to give the universal soul manlike features, creating a god capable of thinking, willing, feeling, and having emotion. The finite cannot comprehend the infinite, and vice versa, thus, it makes no sense to characterize infinitude based on our finite physical consciousness.

Heaven, it seems, could either be a misinterpretation of nirvana, the highest state of being after the death process and before rebirth and re-descent into matter, or merely a meek reflection of that highest universal soul which exists, dark, one, complete, when the veil of the physical is lifted and all ascends back up to its origin in spirit (the aforementioned period of universal dormancy).

Hell, hell I dont even know where that came from :\ I havent read enough I guess. Satan however and the big battle between the archangels and the fallen angels however is explained (briefly) as this;

Those creative dealies mentioned above, well, they further the process of mind into matter (hahalolo). According to some ancient teaching 1/3rd of em wouldn't put out. They didn't want to soil the perfection with the crap of materiality. Karma, ultimate balancer, not intelligent but primal force, is like oklolo you guys suck you get to descend to the physical much later than the rest meaning you'll be way behind by the time the universe folds up again :\ in other words while we've all gone from mineral to plant to animal to human already they're still behind.
Thats a crappily rough and without proper backstory version of where the whole lucifer fallen angels story came from. Your cat and that plant in your kitchen are satan :\

Omglol I have one more topic to address: my stance on other's beliefs. I will say that I dislike people who put blind faith in their institutions, symbols, and belief systems without knowing their proper origin and how distorted they became. I won't assert my beliefs onto others, I will however freely offer simple facts (like the satan and god backgrounds above) as to where the christian belief comes from. It looks like I bash the christian story a lot, when all I'm doing is presenting the real story and pointing out the *yes* perversions, because thats what they essentially are, rewriting ancient stories. Most of the beliefs of all religions, cultural systems, and scientific knowledge can be traced back to these such origins. In effect, I only assert fact, not belief. Same with atheists and scientists, the 'coincidental' similarities between new scientific discoveries and revelations and things that were written thousands of years ago, the unsolvable mysteries of science and life that all find their respective place in the wisdom-religion.

Fuck you guys I spent an hour and a half writing that

Dannywilson · Post by **Dannywilson** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:58 pm

RadicalEd0 wrote: Your cat and that plant in your kitchen are satan.

Yes, I do Believe my cat IS satan.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:16 pm

But what about the poor plant?

Mroni · Post by **Mroni** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:27 pm

Cardinal.jpg wrote:Just aside from the God issue, something that really gets me is that last Friday a train crashed very near to Sydney killing nine people. Then on Saunday news of the Columbia exploding and killing seven arrives. I don't know how well you got coverage of the train crash but we sure as hell are getting a lot of coverage of the Columbia "disaster". Now who is to say which people are better, I don't think anyone can say that nine deaths is less important than seven and also the fact that the ratio of people catching trains to shuttles is enormous. But apparently a something happening in America is obviously more tragic than a serious saftey issue in Australia, also over January almost half a state burnt to the ground in bush fires killing four.

I don't see what makes the Colmbia incident more fo tragedy than the death that occurs throughout the rest of the world and how this could even relate to a God. I fail to realise why God would influence minor issues such as seven or nine dying when nothing is apparently being done about the rest of the worlds deaths.

Also I have not eradicated the possibility of a supreme being from my mind, I just do not subscribe to it at the moment, also I feel that organised religion is more propaganda than belief. Belief is fine but trying to convert others against their will is bullshit.

Ok this is pretty petty who's tragedy was worse? I am sorry to hear about your train wreck I don't watch the news anyway.

Mr Oni