Escaflowne... What do you think...?

User avatar
SQ
Doesn't have a title
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:11 pm
Status: youtube.com/SQ
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by SQ » Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:10 pm

Wow. I have a lot to say about this. As a owner of like, practically all the special in-depth scripts of the director's interviews and things.. I feel obligated.. This'll go in order of topics(Starting with what I think about escaflowne and then going on to other topics that rose after that in different posts).

Escaflowne was the first anime I ever saw(other than DBZ). I had seen it on FoxKids I think on a saturday. It was the episode where Hitomi "died". Of course, that just also happened to be the same episode where they decided to stop airing.(Just my luck). I had taped that episode for some reason(I don't know how or why :?) And showed it to all my fiends. We all became obsessed with that episode and watched it like very day. A few months later, the DVDs started popping up... I began my collection. I didn't have a lot of money back then, so I only got about one DVD a few months, and then a big pile of DVDs for Xmas and my birthdays. Anyway, two years later, I was an owner of the entire Escaflowne series.(Not to mention ever month the prices rose on those things, now I believe they're up to 40 bucks for one of the ending or beginning DVDs whiel in the middle of the series it's 35 dollars... I have no idea why they price them differently, now :?).

As you can probably sum up, I loved the serie. The character devolpment, the romance, everything.. But then again, I was also a preteen, so if you shoved any romance anime in front of my nose I probably would have liked it.(More about the Escaflowne series noses later).

As for the movie, I heard a LOT about it before it came out. I went to websites galore, and when I went to my first ever con in 2001, I bought the movie(Before it was released in the US!). It was a subtitled VHS(Now listed as a bootleg at Lizzard.net's Escaflowne the Movie shrine bootleg list) and was bought at Dragon*Con. I watched that thing about once a week. I liked the movie a lot. It was about the same level of goodness as the series. But then again, as I said, I was preteen, I liked anything that was anime romance. I look at it now, and I understand what they did..(more on that later).
Anyway, about a year later, the DVD came out. I quickly reserved my sepcial limited edition boxed set(I realize what a wast of money it is, now). I had also bought the movie soundtrack wayyyy before I bought my first Bootleg movie.(The soundtrack is the best.. Ever!).

So now you know what I think about them both. But here's the info on other things..

The animation in the series:
Nobuteru Yuuki(character Designer) wanted to express the light image in the TV series by using light colors. This was common for shojo comics , and what Yuuki did was basically base all the animation from previous shojo works. Yuuki even based most of the clothes the characters wore in the series off of previous shojo comics. As for the bug pointy noses, be glad they're not as bad as what they were in the Utena movie...

The episode structure:
It was never originally supposed to be 39 episodes. Ryota Yamaguchi(Screenplay writer) wrote it in a 26 episode structure. The reason that it seems as though it was supposed to be 39 is later, during production, Masahiko Minami(Producer) wanted to reinforce the romantic part of the series to make it more interesting, instead of merely emphasizing the mysteriousness of the fortune telling.

The reason the series and the movie is so different:
The series as two themes that Shoji Kawamori(Original creator) devolped. The main theme, "Destiny" and the sub theme, "Feelings."("Feelings" sub theme was devolped by Kazuke Akane[Director/Screenplay].)
For the movie, however, the themes changed. Akane only wnated to focus on one theme. "Feelings". Akane's interpretation of "Feelings" is "being close to someone you love." With that said, Yomaguchi had a hard time writing the Movie's screenplay. He even states in an interview, "In fact, writing of the screenplay involved signifigant emotional pain. Hitomi and Van build walls around themselves, and hardly reveal their true intentions."

The spelling:
It's "Van". It has always been "Van." The original creators collaborated with Bandai Visual to use CG efffects in both the series and the movie, so whatever Bandai says the spelling is, is basically what goes. Not to mention that in any japanese magazine you see, and in character designs, it's always spelled "Van", with the occational "Ban". Which brings me to my next point with Balgus's spelling. The sounds from the letters "V" and "B" are the same in the Japanese language. So if it's "Van" or "Ban" it's the same name. That goes with "Balgus" and "Valgus" as well. They didn't change the character's name, they just made it easier for english people to understand.

AtomicWeezelMan, what you say about the Escflowne being drawn by a five year old is just a state of opinion. The exact same staff that worked on the series worked on the Movie.
Kimitoshi Yamane(Mechanical designer) drew Escaflowne as well as all the other guymelefs. For the theatrical version, though, he worked on refining Escaflowne and Alseides(The thing DIlandau pilots in the movie). In The series, Escaflowne seems to have a will of its own, but it has an undeniably mechanical robot appearence. Akane asked Yamane for a "More vital looking Escaflowne" So he tried to make it look organic. As Yamane says in an interview: "The most challenging part of designing the Escaflowne was to have its original design consistant with its transformation into a dragon."

Also, just going a bit off topic, The series does have deleted scenes, cut both from the DVD and the TV release. These scenes however had little to no character devolpment, and can be found on Lizzard.net's Lost Escaflowne Page.

Anyway, that's my really really long 2 cents...
Discord: @standardquip (Vars)
BentoVid.com

User avatar
SQ
Doesn't have a title
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:11 pm
Status: youtube.com/SQ
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by SQ » Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:13 pm

Forgot to add This.

I also want to know who made those AMVs on the first DVD of the series, and why they were only on the First DVD.. I eman, they had more tracks from the soundtrack, why not make an AMV for each one and put it on the DVDs?
Discord: @standardquip (Vars)
BentoVid.com

User avatar
AtomicWeezleman
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:10 am
Location: Walking the earth.........
Org Profile

Post by AtomicWeezleman » Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:21 pm

SQ wrote:

AtomicWeezelMan, what you say about the Escflowne being drawn by a five year old is just a state of opinion. The exact same staff that worked on the series worked on the Movie.
Kimitoshi Yamane(Mechanical designer) drew Escaflowne as well as all the other guymelefs. For the theatrical version, though, he worked on refining Escaflowne and Alseides(The thing DIlandau pilots in the movie). In The series, Escaflowne seems to have a will of its own, but it has an undeniably mechanical robot appearence. Akane asked Yamane for a "More vital looking Escaflowne" So he tried to make it look organic. As Yamane says in an interview: "The most challenging part of designing the Escaflowne was to have its original design consistant with its transformation into a dragon."
whoah whoah WHOAH!!! slow down there cowboy, i was just poking a little fun, no harm done im sure, but come on, it was a good movie, i just personaly felt a little let down on whan it change to its dragon form that all, you got to admit, the quality isnt as high as the rest of the movie is it??

As for Vaughn, i preferred the way he was in the film, he was ard in the film, in the series (albeit ive only seen the first DVD), he was a bit of a wus. Now don't go torching me yet, ive been watching it on Fox and intend to watch the rest of it.
I play violent computer games! I could snap at any minute!!!!

User avatar
SQ
Doesn't have a title
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:11 pm
Status: youtube.com/SQ
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by SQ » Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:27 pm

Didn't mean any harm.. Was just trying to educate..
As for the Van being a wuss/badass... Yeah... I don't have anything to prove you wrong, lol. All I can pull right now is that they wanted a celtic theme 0.o

If you want to know more about the production of the series/movie all the information I said came from various interviews on the DVDs, but mostly from The deluxe edition of the movie's "Memorial book."

Anyway, as for watchign Escaflowne on Fox.. Damn. WHen I compare my crappy tape from Fox now to the DVD of that same episode... Fox did some really stupid things. Background music was taken out, clothes of course were edited. Action scenes were taken out, rearranged, and.. Meh. You've only seen half the series if you watch it all on Fox.. 0o
Not that I'm penalizing you or anything. I'm pretty sure you can rent the DVDs of Escaflowne from a Blockbuster or something. It's pretty popular right now. And in my area, everyone's going through this stage where "OMG!! It's ANIME!! OMG!! It MUST be good!! Because it's ANIME!!!" so.. Uhh... Yeah.. :wink:
Discord: @standardquip (Vars)
BentoVid.com

User avatar
dwchang
Sad Boy on Site
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:22 am
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by dwchang » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:05 pm

SQ wrote:I had seen it on FoxKids I think on a saturday.
I'm sorry. I surely hope you have watched it unedited and in Japanese now. The ditzy US Hitomi PISSES me off.
SQ wrote:The episode structure:
It was never originally supposed to be 39 episodes. Ryota Yamaguchi(Screenplay writer) wrote it in a 26 episode structure. The reason that it seems as though it was supposed to be 39 is later, during production, Masahiko Minami(Producer) wanted to reinforce the romantic part of the series to make it more interesting, instead of merely emphasizing the mysteriousness of the fortune telling.
Here is a link that pretty much proves this wrong. I don't know where you got this information, but is pretty much been accepted that the show was cut from 39 -> 26 in pre-production. For those curious about Escaflowne, I highly recommend this site the Escaflowne Compendium. In fact, to further prove the point, there are extra scenes in the laser disc near the last few episodes (which is where it would've been extended). They didn't want to make it longer at the end, they wanted to make it longer at the beginning and had to make it shorter (the opposite).
SQ wrote:The spelling:
It's "Van". It has always been "Van." The original creators collaborated with Bandai Visual to use CG efffects in both the series and the movie, so whatever Bandai says the spelling is, is basically what goes. Not to mention that in any japanese magazine you see, and in character designs, it's always spelled "Van", with the occational "Ban". Which brings me to my next point with Balgus's spelling. The sounds from the letters "V" and "B" are the same in the Japanese language. So if it's "Van" or "Ban" it's the same name. That goes with "Balgus" and "Valgus" as well. They didn't change the character's name, they just made it easier for english people to understand.
I think you are misinterpretting this. The Japanese have the spelling as "Van" because in Hiragana, Vaughn's name is a "Ba" (バ), "a" (ア), "n" (ン) (I surely hope these show up). For them it would be "Ban" in direct romanization. However, anyone with a good ear can hear that they say it more like BAHN (emphasis on the A) correct? This is something that is in Japanese easy to convey with three letters, however in English not. This is the job of a translator.

My friend Dave knew that Vaughn was バアン, but to put "Van" (the literal romanization or worse Ban) would equate to VAN, as in the vehicle. This is because do not have these implied tenses and extended AH sounded (the extra ア in between). This is why he choice "Vaughn." There is no mistake when reading "Vaughn" that it isn't the vehicle. It has more emphasis on the AH sound through an "augh." If you were correct the Japanese would be saying Ban or Van (the car) or バン without the "A" (ア) letter in the center (as seen above).

As I said earlier, my friend is a VERY good translator who works quite closely with Bandai and he does his research. He knows not to literally romanize the name b/c VAN is a vehicle. Also Vargas is...Vargus. As said earlier Vargas in japanese would use the same "Ba" sound (since the Japanese lack a "V") and same with the L -> R (japanese don't have an "R").

As I earlier posted, my friend did his research and the name Vargas is from Norse Mythology which was where the Japanese got a cool name. As I said earlier, anyone with a good ear knows that all the characters refer to him as Valgus (at the least). Same argument with direct romanizations and this becomes VARGAS as opposed to Valgus (again the B is because there is no V sound in Japanese).

Say what you want, but I trust me friends opinion, my knowledge of the japanese language/alphabet (i took japanese in HS) and my ear. We are quite fortunate of his translations. I have 100% faith in his accuracy since he has a freaking masters in Japanese and talks with his..well..Japanese bosses.

Humorous little antecdote, at a convention Neil Nadelman (sp), the translator of Eva was doing a panel and my friend decided to attend. He asked Nadelman a question in Japanese and Nadelman had no idea what he said. Now how much faith do you have in your Eva translation :-P. I hope not much since the translator has had 2 years of Japanese while my friend has over 6 and the other good ones are either Japanese or comprable education. I have another friend who works for ADV (she has translated Excel Saga, Rah Xephon, Noir, Xenosaga, etc.) and she's Japanese.

I'll forgive you since you love the show so much :).
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space

User avatar
SQ
Doesn't have a title
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:11 pm
Status: youtube.com/SQ
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by SQ » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:25 pm

dwchang wrote:
SQ wrote:I had seen it on FoxKids I think on a saturday.
I'm sorry. I surely hope you have watched it unedited and in Japanese now. The ditzy US Hitomi PISSES me off.
Yes. I did. If you had read through my full thing, I now own all 8 DVDs and the movie, and have watched them all in Japanese. I had only seen one episode on TV before it was taken off the air.
dwchang wrote:
SQ wrote:The episode structure:
It was never originally supposed to be 39 episodes. Ryota Yamaguchi(Screenplay writer) wrote it in a 26 episode structure. The reason that it seems as though it was supposed to be 39 is later, during production, Masahiko Minami(Producer) wanted to reinforce the romantic part of the series to make it more interesting, instead of merely emphasizing the mysteriousness of the fortune telling.
Here is a link that pretty much proves this wrong. I don't know where you got this information, but is pretty much been accepted that the show was cut from 39 -> 26 in pre-production. For those curious about Escaflowne, I highly recommend this site the Escaflowne Compendium. In fact, to further prove the point, there are extra scenes in the laser disc near the last few episodes (which is where it would've been extended). They didn't want to make it longer at the end, they wanted to make it longer at the beginning and had to make it shorter (the opposite).
Alright so I've been proven wrong. From the information I have, it gave the feeling that it was originally 26. And as for where I got my information from, it's the post right above yours.
SQ wrote: If you want to know more about the production of the series/movie all the information I said came from various interviews on the DVDs, but mostly from The deluxe edition of the movie's "Memorial book."
dwchang wrote:
SQ wrote:The spelling:
It's "Van". It has always been "Van." The original creators collaborated with Bandai Visual to use CG efffects in both the series and the movie, so whatever Bandai says the spelling is, is basically what goes. Not to mention that in any japanese magazine you see, and in character designs, it's always spelled "Van", with the occational "Ban". Which brings me to my next point with Balgus's spelling. The sounds from the letters "V" and "B" are the same in the Japanese language. So if it's "Van" or "Ban" it's the same name. That goes with "Balgus" and "Valgus" as well. They didn't change the character's name, they just made it easier for english people to understand.
I think you are misinterpretting this. The Japanese have the spelling as "Van" because in Hiragana, Vaughn's name is a "Ba" (バ), "a" (ア), "n" (ン) (I surely hope these show up). For them it would be "Ban" in direct romanization. However, anyone with a good ear can hear that they say it more like BAHN (emphasis on the A) correct? This is something that is in Japanese easy to convey with three letters, however in English not. This is the job of a translator.

My friend Dave knew that Vaughn was バアン, but to put "Van" (the literal romanization or worse Ban) would equate to VAN, as in the vehicle. This is because do not have these implied tenses and extended AH sounded (the extra ア in between). This is why he choice "Vaughn." There is no mistake when reading "Vaughn" that it isn't the vehicle. It has more emphasis on the AH sound through an "augh." If you were correct the Japanese would be saying Ban or Van (the car) or バン without the "A" (ア) letter in the center (as seen above).

As I said earlier, my friend is a VERY good translator who works quite closely with Bandai and he does his research. He knows not to literally romanize the name b/c VAN is a vehicle. Also Vargas is...Vargus. As said earlier Vargas in japanese would use the same "Ba" sound (since the Japanese lack a "V") and same with the L -> R (japanese don't have an "R").

As I earlier posted, my friend did his research and the name Vargas is from Norse Mythology which was where the Japanese got a cool name. As I said earlier, anyone with a good ear knows that all the characters refer to him as Valgus (at the least). Same argument with direct romanizations and this becomes VARGAS as opposed to Valgus (again the B is because there is no V sound in Japanese).

Say what you want, but I trust me friends opinion, my knowledge of the japanese language/alphabet (i took japanese in HS) and my ear. We are quite fortunate of his translations. I have 100% faith in his accuracy since he has a freaking masters in Japanese and talks with his..well..Japanese bosses.
So the correct name is "Van" and in that sense I am right. Just because the name is pernounced "vaughn" doesn't mean you spell it that way. Deciding that the name should be spelled "Vaughn" is a personal opinion of the translator. I agree with Bandai's descsion to enforce the spelling "Van." I have a friend name Van, and his name is pernouned "Vaughn" but he spells it "Van" like the vehicle. If America went by the logic of "It has to be spelt the way it's pernounced" then over 80% of the english language would have different spellings. This is what makes English so hard to learn for foriegners. We have silent letters, and different pernounciations.
dwchang wrote:at a convention Neil Nadelman (sp), the translator of Eva was doing a panel and my friend decided to attend. He asked Nadelman a question in Japanese and Nadelman had no idea what he said. Now how much faith do you have in your Eva translation
Other than the fact that I don't watch nor like Eva, did you ever think that perhaps the translator of Eva cannot speak or recognise spoken Japanese? It may be that Nadelman only learned the written language, and translates from the script. In that case, 2 years of expirence would be enough. But htis is just a guess, here.
dwchang wrote:I'll forgive you since you love the show so much :).
No comment.
Discord: @standardquip (Vars)
BentoVid.com

User avatar
SQ
Doesn't have a title
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:11 pm
Status: youtube.com/SQ
Location: Upstate NY
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by SQ » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:28 pm

SQ wrote:
SQ wrote:
dwchang wrote:
I had seen it on FoxKids I think on a saturday.



I'm sorry. I surely hope you have watched it unedited and in Japanese now. The ditzy US Hitomi PISSES me off.


Yes. I did. If you had read through my full thing, I now own all 8 DVDs and the movie, and have watched them all in Japanese. I had only seen one episode on TV before it was taken off the air.
Meh. I interpreted that wrong. I've seen descriptions of the unedited japanese versions from this site. I spent enough money on the english DVD releases, and don't really think I'm missing that much if I don't buy the Japanese releases.
Discord: @standardquip (Vars)
BentoVid.com

User avatar
dwchang
Sad Boy on Site
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:22 am
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by dwchang » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:39 pm

Yes. I did. If you had read through my full thing, I now own all 8 DVDs and the movie, and have watched them all in Japanese. I had only seen one episode on TV before it was taken off the air.
Read your reply, but you didn't state if you watched it in japanese. 'Twas just a suggestion.
So the correct name is "Van" and in that sense I am right. Just because the name is pernounced "vaughn" doesn't mean you spell it that way. Deciding that the name should be spelled "Vaughn" is a personal opinion of the translator. I agree with Bandai's descsion to enforce the spelling "Van." I have a friend name Van, and his name is pernouned "Vaughn" but he spells it "Van" like the vehicle. If America went by the logic of "It has to be spelt the way it's pernounced" then over 80% of the english language would have different spellings. This is what makes English so hard to learn for foriegners. We have silent letters, and different pernounciations.
Well, actually, that was kind of what I was going for. The correct LITERAL romanization of the name would be "Bahn" (the extra ah because of the extra "a" Hiragana). However, as you and I have both state, putting "Van" would make people think it was the vehicle. I agree on the spelling vs. pronounciation, but as a translator, it is your duty to as closely as possible convey the words and in this case names. He felt it was necessary to emphasize the name further and have no confusion. Like I said the literal romanization is BAHN with a B b/c of the lack of V in Japanese. It really comes down to how stupid and confused people could become.
Other than the fact that I don't watch nor like Eva, did you ever think that perhaps the translator of Eva cannot speak or recognise spoken Japanese? It may be that Nadelman only learned the written language, and translates from the script. In that case, 2 years of expirence would be enough. But htis is just a guess, here.
Yeah, but even in this case he's stupid. Translators don't get a script. They watch the show. They get a raw copy of the Laser Discs or something and then write their own script as they watch. To translate effectively, you must understand spoken japanese at a level intelligent enough to converse with a japanese person (because anime is japanese people talking normally).
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space

User avatar
PyrotheUnforgiven
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:00 pm
Org Profile

Post by PyrotheUnforgiven » Mon Mar 24, 2003 6:47 pm

Yet, I would have to agree with chang againg due to the "FoxKids" version of Escaflowne is just... Stupid, I prefer the japanese version because it is more accurate, and I wouldn't mind seeing your video of escaflowne chang...

User avatar
dwchang
Sad Boy on Site
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:22 am
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by dwchang » Mon Mar 24, 2003 7:18 pm

PyrotheUnforgiven wrote:Yet, I would have to agree with chang againg due to the "FoxKids" version of Escaflowne is just... Stupid, I prefer the japanese version because it is more accurate, and I wouldn't mind seeing your video of escaflowne chang...
My first video "Believe in Me" was to Escaflowne and you're free to take a look, but I've gotten MUCH better. Believe in Me has a nice concept of belief and faith in each other (as the show has), but my new one does this A LOT better. I will definitely do an announcement when it's done and premiered at ACen'03. It's done, but I wanna show it at ACen first.

Thanks for the interest.
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space

Locked

Return to “General Anime”