It's very easy for Americans to be pro-war. Since America hasn't suffered a homefront war since the civil war they don't know what it's like to have thier homes destroyed. To have people with guns everywhere, shooting at you because of your affiliation with a certain country. 9/11 was horrible, but that was 4 planes. Those 4 planes were the equivalent of 4 bombs. We've already hit Baghdad with over 100 bombs in this conflict alone. Not to mention how many over the past decades.
. . .the logic here being, we don't have any business saying anything about war because we haven't been attacked enough?
. . .or the logic being that because we've dropped over a thousand bombs, were worse than the arab and islamic fundamentalists running the regimes over there?
Let me remind you, despite all of the ordinance we've layed down, we've killed fewer soldiers and civillians in the 12 years of bombarding than the terrorist with the 4 planes your speak of in one instant, and DEFINETLY fewer people than Saddam while in power.
Why is it that when I turn on the TV or NPR on the radio I hear "We don't know shit about where Saddam is, there's no info regarding the actual progress of this campaigne, but look over there, hmmm, a pile of dead Iraqis. None of them is Saddam, or anyone important, just a pile of dead Iraqis. In other war news, I just watched a car full of no good fanatics get shot to peices, 5 more dead Iraqis. GO AMERICA! Sadly, we've lost 3 American soldiers, our hearts go out to their families. Wait, look, 20 more dead Iraqis, WOOHOO!" I'm sick of it, shut up CNN.
well, thats CNN and NPR, which are both a little left to begin with. I watch as many different international news networks as I can, but leave it on fox mostly.
Fuck you Bush. This war is amoral bullshit and you know it. You should've just offed the mother fucker when fucking Dan Rather was interviewing him. He's shown himself publically before, why the hell didn't you use one of your "Precision bombs that avoid civilian casualties" then? HUH? Jeasus fucking Christ.
Umm. . amoral means existing outisde of morality and immorality. Is that the word you meant to use? Also, we want Saddam, but our mission is the whole regime, including the Baath party, and Saddam's family. We've managed to mangle a good number of the Baath party socialists which in of itself is just as important as saddam.
Oh wait, that's another reason for this war isn't it? God wants the US to spread Liberty throught the world. Isn't that convenient for you Mr. President. You should be impeached, anyone who uses God as an excuse for mass killings and hypocracy doesn't deserve any position in power. And that goes for the terrorists as well as YOU!
I'm afraid i don't understand your point. We have the munitions to flatten the entire nation, even without using nuclear weapons. They don't need the fancy GPS systems we've been building on them, we could just be dropping MOABs all day. That would constitute mass killings and hypocracy. Spending billions of dollars and american soldiers lives to NOT flatten the whole country and still take out the terrorist, which is what we're doing, doesn't make the US hypocrits.
And lets not forget. The President of America has to ask Congress's permission before passing any resolution allowing the US to goto war. Don't forget that when you remember who you voted for Representatives and Senators.
On another note. Bush senior pulled out of Iraq at the ending of the Gulf war because the ground war around Basra was getting too hardcore. Until then the casualties suffered were extremely minimal on the American side. But around that city we were losing men quickly, so Bush decided to pull out. The countries economy was already too fucked up to sustain the long ground war campaigne that Bush jr is foolishly putting us in right now. The UN actually urged Bush to continue to oust Saddam back then, but he declined and established tough treaties instead.
Thats funny. I'd like to see the documentation of this. Because if this was true, then why didn't the HUGE multilateral force that assembled in Iraq finish the job when we supposedly pulled out?
Look people, Diplomacy takes a LONG time. Why can't Bush Jr. understand that the true way to spread democracy is to lead by example? If the US uses a system and prospers very well. Then naturally other countries will follow in the use of that system. THAT FACT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO BE TRUE THOUGHOUT HISTORY DAMMIT. However, instead out president has decided to get his way by forcefully invading another country without adequate cause (There was cause alright, but it sure wasn't adequate to justify an invasion). This is not only fucking up our economy (check out the Airlines, they're all filing for bankruptcy and asking for government aid), but its also seperating us from our allies. That's baddddd. Everyone seems to think its just the French. Hmmmm, let me inform you that France, China, Russia, Germany, Italy, and most of the other Western powers are VERY arngy about this.
first, Am-Air is going under because its a poorly run business, its just been forcibly revealed how bad because of the terrorist attacks. All the airlines are hurting since the week they weren't allowed to fly following 911. The businesses that folded/are folding SHOULD HAVE folded. That way, it proves that the business wasn't strong enough to weather a disaster. You don't see Delta, or Continental, or even good ol Airtran/valuejet folding. Yeah they're hurting, but Am-Air was bad business just like Kmart.
Aecond, yes I agree with you that the pinnacle of spreading your ideal is through example. However it is not the only and not always the best way. If you TRULY believe that it is with all your heart then you have more courage and faith in all humanity, includding Saddam, than anyone else I've ever met. The fact through history? Only a small number of governments decided to actually overhaul themselves into a democratic model. Most are overthrown, wether from dictators or monarchs, or go attack someone else when it becomes clear their own infrastructure is breaking down, or the country is run by psychopaths. Germany and Japan certainly enjoy great prosperity, and they didn't change by example, they were defeated and surrendered to US in ww2. We went in after leveling them (along with many other countries over the years) and rebuilt them. We standardised the language, set up the basics for an infrastructure of government, established a few banks, did a lot of construction, then eventually left. And lookee who was kicking our economic butts in the 80's. . .sure wasn't Canada.
third, italy supports america.
Now time to deviate to the whole "War against Terrorism". Let me just say this. The best way to combat a problem is to find out WHY that problem is occuring, and stop the WHY from happening. Now terrorism occurs mainly due to hatred against the US from people who want VENGENCE for action like THIS WAR ON IRAQ. Now, the higher end of the terrorist ladder (Bin Laden, etc), they're motivated by greed. So its okay for you do go in and bomb the fuck out of them. But the majority of terrorists, the people who actually perform the actions, are doing it because they hate this country. People don't blow themselves up for no reason. Maybe if instead of bombing more people, you should instead give them a reason to NOT hate the US. THAT would stop terrorism. This war is counter-productive. It's causing MORE death, leading to MORE hatred, creating MORE terrorists. You should be impeached Mr Bush, you're threatening national security.
Nobody has killed more Arabs then Arabs. Let me repeat this fact. Nobody has killed more Arabs than other Arabs. They don't want a reason to like us, they routinely declare war on our way of life, our religions, our zionist leaders (or whatever), our evil capitalist government, or our skin color. They aren't looking for understanding, they're looking for justified genocide. We are the ones who want understanding, the proof being that if we didn't want understanding, we would've flattened Afghanistan looking for Osama, and Iraq looking for Saddam and the Baath.
Now some of them do want understanding, but they're being oppressed; not by America or any other democracy, they're being oppressed by the military regimes and the fundamentalists in power with the tanks and biological weapons.
Now to bash the anti-war movement a little bit. Macing police and causing violence is stupid and hypocritical. Stop marching into chaos and simply protest peacefully for God's sake. Or you could do something useful like outline reasons that Bush's logic is wrong. The other day I saw a sign that said "Don't believe the President's lies". That's not going to be helpful. If you tell a radom person on the street that their president is lying to them, they aren't going to agree with you. The best thing to do is find the flaws in what Bush actually is telling the people. That is what discredits him.
Unfortunately, the majority of people protesting this war ARE in fact Anti-American. They are being grouped with the actual pacifists and peaceful dissenters who love america but don't want this to go on. Their message is being drowned out by the Anti american ilk like A.N.S.W.E.R. You are right, they are behaving stupidly. the idea is to get people to understand and agree with your point of view, and the chaos the last couple of days isnt going to cut it.
Neither is turning a flag upside down.
Now onto the pro war protesters. Saying you support the troops is all well and good, but this bashing of the anti war protesters is wrong. They are not siding with Saddam, and they DO NOT want our soldiers to be hurt. They are simply voicing their opinions, stop calling them traitors or making statements like "They should be put into the situations our soldiers faced in Nam". I'm sick of it.
Like i said before, these people who support the troops are criticising the anti americans, not the peacful dissenters. The true peaceful dissenter will make statements like "i strongly disagree with the directions our country is taking." or, "I'm not going to vote for him next time."
thats not the statements being made. The statements being made are anti-american. "America is behaving in a shameful fashion," or "were whats wrong with the world, not iraq."
There are, in actuality, 4 seperate groups. Anti-war, anti-American, pro-war, and Pro American. the problem is that they're constantly getting mixed up with one another.
Now for more of my views. I think right now the only thing that we can do is go through with the whole matter and not stop until the Iraqi regime is crushed. If we were to pull out we'd be a disgrace to the world, and frankly Saddam would go on a rampage, killing everything that opposed him in his own country.
and the only question i have for people is, isn't that reason enough to get them out?
Sorry about my comments at the begining of this, I don't want to offend anyone, I'm just rather angry right now. I've been on the road for the past 8 hours, listening to NPR for most of them, and I just needed to get all that out. Thanks to anyone who took the time to read all that.
its okay, too much NPR or Talk Radio will do that to anyone. ;p
Besides, long-term exposure to NPR can make anyone agitated.
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