Otakon 2003: Sizing up the Competition...

[BogoSort]

I do have to agree with you on this. For some reason I lost my confidence in the ability of the reviewers other them myself to properly judge the videos. It just seems like last year everything was more formal as more creators were present and only a few non creator anime club members. This year it was the other way around. Only like 4 creators (that's including myself) were there. There was much heckeling going on. I feel that had the creators of some of the vids been there to hear some of the things said, they would have started to cry or something. While I don't like this at all, I must confess that by the third tape even I was following suit, and I am discusted at myself for doing so.
I remember last year when I made my first video ever. I had decided to use akira because the DVD version had just come out. Anyway, I went to the pre-screening and just before my video was shown I heared the smart remark from one of the reviewers "Oh Great an Akira video.....this gets a -2" out loud for anyone to hear. I saw the person who said this this year but did not bring it up because it would not be right.

Oh god, so I'm not the only one who left the place yesterday with a sour taste in my mouth. I escaped during the middle of the feeding frenzy, because I couldn't take much more of the "Well that was a crappy vid, but I'll give it a +1 for the effort." Either a vid is good or it isn't the amount of percieved effort shouldn't matter. Or the "Well that was a good concept but implemented poorly, I'll give it a +1." This is a video judging contest, not a concept juding contest. And a vocal majority of that group tended to have an inner desire to be elitist snobs. The sad part is that I got the feeling that a lot of them vocalized their ratings of the vids in hopes of receiving confirmation from their percieved peers that they rated an amv correctly.

*shrug* Then again, I guess that I'm a relative newbie and don't understand the intricacies of the elite Otakon crowd.

[hackerzc]

Oh god, so I'm not the only one who left the place yesterday with a sour taste in my mouth. I escaped during the middle of the feeding frenzy, because I couldn't take much more of the "Well that was a crappy vid, but I'll give it a +1 for the effort." Either a vid is good or it isn't the amount of percieved effort shouldn't matter. Or the "Well that was a good concept but implemented poorly, I'll give it a +1." This is a video judging contest, not a concept juding contest. And a vocal majority of that group tended to have an inner desire to be elitist snobs. The sad part is that I got the feeling that a lot of them vocalized their ratings of the vids in hopes of receiving confirmation from their percieved peers that they rated an amv correctly.

*shrug* Then again, I guess that I'm a relative newbie and don't understand the intricacies of the elite Otakon crowd.

You hit it right on the head! That's exactly what it was like. Your observations are 100% on the nose. I don't hate those who did what they did. I just don't like it very much. Even I was getting in on it at one point, which is pothetic really. But at least I'm willing to admit when I am wrong.

Mind you, I'll most likely get bad reviews on my vid and get strange looks at the remaining 2 Pre-Screenings, but I quess that's the price I pay for being honest.

[iserlohn]

Oh god, so I'm not the only one who left the place yesterday with a sour taste in my mouth. I escaped during the middle of the feeding frenzy, because I couldn't take much more of the "Well that was a crappy vid, but I'll give it a +1 for the effort." Either a vid is good or it isn't the amount of percieved effort shouldn't matter. Or the "Well that was a good concept but implemented poorly, I'll give it a +1." This is a video judging contest, not a concept juding contest. And a vocal majority of that group tended to have an inner desire to be elitist snobs. The sad part is that I got the feeling that a lot of them vocalized their ratings of the vids in hopes of receiving confirmation from their percieved peers that they rated an amv correctly.

I stayed for it all, just to stay out of the rain if nothing else. And don't worry, if I thought it wasn't a good video, it got an appropriate mark - although I do admit to giving out a few bonus points for risk-taking or hitting something right or obscure. Then again, that usually got it from a -2 to a -1 or so, nothing that would be a major push.

As far as heckling goes, I was mostly pissed that people would start as soon as a video began and didn't even give it time to establish itself. It made judging on my end difficult, especially for the instances when a song was in a foreign language (esp. one I could understand) and I wanted to judge on lyrics, but couldn't because the heckling broke my concentration. Unfortunately, Eric the Everlasting will be there next week...at least I don't live with him anymore. I'd also be willing to gander that Matt was too exhausted to be putting up a struggle.

I do feel bad about it, a lot more than I do about giving bad scores left and right, mostly because I know how much work can go into a video, even if it's awful. We can hope that things will be better next week when there's fewer problems, more people, and less to try and work through...

*shrug* Then again, I guess that I'm a relative newbie and don't understand the intricacies of the elite Otakon crowd.

w00t. We are 1337.

Seriously, though, turnout was pretty poor. I'm not sure if it was Father's Day, the weather, being the same weekend as Anime Mid-Atlantic, or what, but it was definately less people than last year. Hopefully the turnout will increase next time, especially of creators. I'm surprised that only four? of us made it over...

As far as the technical issues with the tapes go, according to his LJ, quu found out why videos were ending early (driver issue with his output card), but he's still looking into why there were so many audio dropouts (I stand by that it's not the speakers). We'll see if they get worked out...

[BogoSort]

As far as heckling goes, I was mostly pissed that people would start as soon as a video began and didn't even give it time to establish itself. It made judging on my end difficult, especially for the instances when a song was in a foreign language (esp. one I could understand) and I wanted to judge on lyrics, but couldn't because the heckling broke my concentration. Unfortunately, Eric the Everlasting will be there next week...at least I don't live with him anymore. I'd also be willing to gander that Matt was too exhausted to be putting up a struggle.

Well if you want me to rough him up a little, just ask nicely and I'm sure that it could be arranged. Then again, I suggest a supply of flingable nerf weapons/koosh balls to fire/fling at anyone who insults a video during it. Heckling before or after I can see, but even the worst vid deserves at least a concerted effort to process it during the vid.

*shrug* Then again, I guess that I'm a relative newbie and don't understand the intricacies of the elite Otakon crowd.

w00t. We are 1337.

Seriously, though, turnout was pretty poor. I'm not sure if it was Father's Day, the weather, being the same weekend as Anime Mid-Atlantic, or what, but it was definately less people than last year. Hopefully the turnout will increase next time, especially of creators. I'm surprised that only four? of us made it over...

Neat, so if I arranged for "accidents" for the three other amv creators in the room, I would be the best amv creator in the room... ;)

But all silliness aside, I definately did get the impression that many of the individuals in the room have never attempted to create an amv, and yet feel the need to exude an aura of egotistical superiority over the other invididuals that were there. *shrug* I might show up again next Saturday if I have time(though mostly to see what the snobs think of my crappy submission).

[VegettoEX]

What I'm reading is just yet another example of what plagues things like anime conventions, especially over the recent years as more and more people are attending:

Mob Mentality.

... especially among some anime fans, let's call them "00ber g33ks," who are so insecure with themselves that they take advantage of the one faction of their fandom where they can actually place themselves above others: heckling. You'll notice that these individuals usually have a terrible, terrible, terrible sense of humor, as well.

The mob mentality comes in when GROUPS of these idiots get together, and collectively think they're being funny. And like BogoSort said, they believe that by shouting something out, they'll gain the approval of their peers by "correctly" judging a video... which also makes them feel better about themselves.

Word to the wise (or in this case, NOT wise): being loud, smelling like shit, shouting random things, and being an idiot does not make you funny. It makes me punch you.

I remember the overflow screening of tape one during Otakon 2001... it was one of the worst cases (since "chair!") that I've ever been subjected to. Chants for fast-forwarding, random expletives shouted out, etc.

It's just plain ol' retarded, and these fans are so utterly moronic and care so little for others that they don't even understand what they're doing.

Which is ruining half of the bigger picture of all this: fun.

I've never been afraid to walk right up to these people and tell them how fucking retarded they're being. Like I said, they're usually so insecure at heart, that it shuts them right the Hell up.

Then again, I welcome and seek out confrontations.

With that said, Go Otakon 2K3~!! I want the con now, but don't have the money for it now, so I'm glad it's not now :P. I'm expecting another awesome con, and more awesome videos. I'm proud to say that the vast majority of AMV creators I've had the pleasure of meeting and becoming friends with NOWHERE NEAR approach this level of stupidity, although a few drinks here and there have been known to bring it close :D.

[dwchang]

Based on all that I read on the pre-screening I suggest Matt say something about heckling prior to the video judging and also about juding itself since there seems to be some discrepencies (as IserJohn said).

Also, just how many people were at the pre-screening? It sounds like a lot more than say 20 - 30 ppl which is what I thought. It sounds like it mainly b/c of all the heckling...ppl usually do that to draw attention to themselves and thus I am assuming this means there was an audience who's attention they were trying to get i.e...look cool in front of.

*shrug* Then again, I guess that I'm a relative newbie and don't understand the intricacies of the elite Otakon crowd.

Me neither. But then again this is my first Otakon and I've been doing this about a year so (shrug). Perhaps I'll be l337 come next year and insult all your vids too j/k

By the way, what do you guys mean by egotistical statements...I mean you said that they probably hadn't made videos, so how can they be egotistical if they have no entries? Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. Perhaps you just meant that they were rarely impressed and stated that outloud...like if a video was simple and executed well...it's not good since it doesn't have mad effects.

I will admit I am a bit shocked since...no offense, but most AMV fans are generally pretty easy to please. I think your video Bogosort is a perfect example of this (since you are making a parody/mockery of it ). Most AMV fans like the popular animes or songs and the stupidest scenes...videos with this no matter how bad are always good to them...it appears not in this case...surprising.

[iserlohn]

Based on all that I read on the pre-screening I suggest Matt say something about heckling prior to the video judging and also about juding itself since there seems to be some discrepencies (as IserJohn said).

Not a bad idea. Matt should be reading this thread, and someone will probably remind him to do so anyways. Judging itself is entirely subjective, based on the viewer's opinions.

Also, just how many people were at the pre-screening? It sounds like a lot more than say 20 - 30 ppl which is what I thought. It sounds like it mainly b/c of all the heckling...ppl usually do that to draw attention to themselves and thus I am assuming this means there was an audience who's attention they were trying to get i.e...look cool in front of.

It was about twenty people. One guy in the club has a joke about everything, but at least he's usually funny...another is just obnoxious. Guess which one has a girlfriend and you wonder what's wrong with some people...

Me neither. But then again this is my first Otakon and I've been doing this about a year so (shrug). Perhaps I'll be l337 come next year and insult all your vids too j/k

Ahhh, but dwchang-san, you CAN insult all our videos now if you wish, just request a couple prescreening tapes from Matt and fill out the comments form =)

By the way, what do you guys mean by egotistical statements...I mean you said that they probably hadn't made videos, so how can they be egotistical if they have no entries?

Frell if I know, probably comes from watching a lot of videos and then getting an idea of what they want. I'm honestly glad that there was at least SOME discussion between videos - last year it was like a funeral and scared the crap out of me when nothing would happen between vids...

I will admit I am a bit shocked since...no offense, but most AMV fans are generally pretty easy to please. I think your video Bogosort is a perfect example of this (since you are making a parody/mockery of it :-D). Most AMV fans like the popular animes or songs and the stupidest scenes...videos with this no matter how bad are always good to them...it appears not in this case...surprising.

What can I say, people in this area are a lot harder to please. We've got easy access to six cons a year, so it's easy to see things without having to go far, download much, etc. There will always be the easy to please masses, but they're not the ones who are going to wake up at 8AM on a Saturday to drive to a campus, sit in a lecture hall for eight hours, and use their brains enough to judge a contest.

Oh, and I've got a better idea than nerf weapons for beating down obnoxious hecklers - the campus medieval re-enactment club uses pvc padding covered rattan sticks to beat each other with. I wonder if I can pick up a couple swords from them...if used right they won't SERIOUSLY hurt someone...

[BogoSort]

Based on all that I read on the pre-screening I suggest Matt say something about heckling prior to the video judging and also about juding itself since there seems to be some discrepencies (as IserJohn said).

Yeah, I think I'll try to poke Matt to do so if I feel in the mood to show up next week.

By the way, what do you guys mean by egotistical statements...I mean you said that they probably hadn't made videos, so how can they be egotistical if they have no entries? Perhaps I am misunderstanding something. Perhaps you just meant that they were rarely impressed and stated that outloud...like if a video was simple and executed well...it's not good since it doesn't have mad effects.

Egotistical by virtue of the fact that they were speaking about failures of bad videos, without really having any actual experience about the creation process of making an amv. And a large portion of the vocalized comments were focused into tearing the amv creator, rather than explaining specificly what was wrong with a vid and how it could be fixed. Oh wait, constructive criticism requires some degree of thought to be able to provide. Guess we can't have any of that.

[BogoSort]

[quote="iserlohn]Oh, and I've got a better idea than nerf weapons for beating down obnoxious hecklers - the campus medieval re-enactment club uses pvc padding covered rattan sticks to beat each other with. I wonder if I can pick up a couple swords from them...if used right they won't SERIOUSLY hurt someone...[/quote]

That's a good thought. I've got a friend who makes those. And he's even got a claymore made. I shall have to borrow it sometime and use it as a beatin stick for any unruly hecklers. Then again, it might not fit in my car...

[BogoSort]

And for my hat trick post, I will say that I suck and never should be allowed to post for failing to use BBCode tags properly. ;)