i love rap

Nonagon · Post by **Nonagon** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:21 pm

GAAAAAAAH!!!!

Fuckin' A people, I leave for 2 months and Farlo takes the opinionated chair.

Oh yeah, el, shut the fuck up. You obviously know nothing about rap, or music in general.

And really...hating Led Zepplin? You're objectively stupid now, sorry. Exit, stage left.

Nonagon · Post by **Nonagon** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:33 pm

FoolThemAll - You rule...Aesop Rock is the best. : D

r-r-r--ooozzzzi--r-r--r---iieeee

Farlo · Post by **Farlo** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:10 pm

Nonagon wrote:Oh yeah, el, shut the fuck up. You obviously know nothing about rap, or music in general.

ive been listening to real music since you were in diapers kiddo...but i prefer real music...stuff that is written by the artist that performs it.

i dare you to make a reasonable comparrison between rap "music" and the classical composers like chopin, or even modern rock, or metal.

talent requires more than a raspy voice yelling about how its hot in "herre", or how we should smoke pot while driving down the road listening to presampled babble.

/end rant

Nonagon · Post by **Nonagon** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:33 pm

Ugh...Goddamn I hate narrow minded people. Listen, if you can't except that there is music out there that you may not care for, and is music, you need to go shoot yourself right now or grow the fuck up. I don't like some classical, but I'll get into that later.

Artists do not block out everything. The only way to progress in the world is to look at everything from both sides. You only see a terribly narrow minded view on music, thus making you narrow minded and ignorant.

Ok, thank you for generalizing by the way. Give +10 modifier to stupidity on your part. Listen, do you know what rap is about? Not as in the songs, but as in the main structure of the music? It really doesn't seem like it. Rapping goes by lyrics, and it is true that a lot of mainstream rap does suck, and a lot of classical DOES suck (I'll get into this later).

Most rap isn't about singing, true
- some people choose to sing in rap, more power to them (see: Prefuse 73 - "Life/Death with Mikah 9")
Most rap, you won't hear the voice you'll want to be lulled to sleep by, true
(see: Anything by Dose One)
Most rap does stereotype the typical gangster with poor grammar, true
Most rap has simplistic beats, true

Do some artists choose to use more complex beats? yes
(see: anything under the genre "glitchhop", see Prefuse 73, RJd2, Boom Bip, Dose One)

So what's the point in rap? I mean, obviously you can't see it as music because of these things. Is it music? yes, why? Because you have certain variables:

It has-
Tempo
time signature
key signature

hey...that seems to be a few things that make it music. Now, lyrics. Do most hiphop artists write their own lyrics? I can't tell you this, and you can't tell me this either. So, SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THAT. I know for a fact that the artists I listen to write their own, I can't tell you anything about anyone else, and neither can you. So don't give me that bullshit that all rap artists don't. Who's to say that classical artists were the only ones to write their music? Obviously we can't be sure can we? Give that up please.

anyway, Ive digressed...
Rap is a music based on what? Lyrics, structure of sentences, like poetry.

Now, with me saying that, I don't want to hear anything about me comparing artists to e.e Cummings or T.S. Eliot.

Sure, some artist's lyrics suck, you can't say that all rock lyrics are good, or that the structure of all classical songs was brilliant. I'd actually say that the lyrics of most modern rock, but that's just my opinion. (see: Aesop Rock and Dose One for lyrics)

Reasonable comparision:
(I generalize in here between the two, so if any of you get offended or pissed off, take it for how it is.)
Classical v. Hip-hop

Both of these genre contain what? (if I had diagram, I'd post it, sorry)

Classical (classical, generally speaking) contains:
Time signaure (most of the time, alternating)
Key Signature (most of the time, alternating)
Tempo (most of the time, alternating)
(being that each classical composer has his/her own style, I can't generalize "Voice", sorry)
Instruments used:
Mainly a symphony or a piano, or both (you will never see a laptop at a classical concert, though times are changing, and so is the word "classical")

Hip-Hop contains:
Time Signature (most of the time, common base, rarely will you find anything besides 4/4)
Key Signature (most of the time it stays constant throughout the song)
Tempo (stays constant most of the time)
Lyrics (strong part, each artist has their different style of rapping, so I can't generalize this section, sorry: see "Voice")
Instruments used:
DJ (sometimes more than one: see Jurassic 5)( turntables x2 )
Laptop (some artists choose to sequence beats, melodies, or chop up their own vocals on a laptop, I'd give program listings, but we can wait)
Drums (standard, but most of the time brush sets)
Brass, symphonic, woodwind, etc.
Other instruments can be:
Piano, Guitar, drum machine (see:Korg Electribe-S), samplers, etc. etc.
This section can go on forever, unlike Classical

Ok, here's my reasonable comparisson.

This is how it goes, you can tell me that classical composers are more complex than any hip-hop artists. I can't argue this fact. But that's not a reasonable comparison if that's what you're looking for. Classical artists like Chopin (only using him because you mentioned him), could play the piano like no other. He had his skill, but ask him to write poetry and he's fucking dead on the ground. Give Aesop Rock a piano, he'll be able to play it as well as the next lame guy who tries to work with an instrument they aren't fluent at, but ask Aesop Rock to write poetry and lyrics and you have a man among men.

Ask either of these two to play a guitar like Joe Satriani, and you'll get 2 morons with a gutiar, nothing more.

This may be nothing like the respond you wanted, but this is what you get.

Classical musicians have talent, so do rock musicians, Hiphop artists do as well (even if you don't want to except that). They all have their abilities in areas and you can't compare any of them properly besides breaking it down to strict music theory.

Looking at it these days, who has the most talent? This is bias, coming from a composer of electronica/glitch/ambient and a guitarist who also plays the piano (me). I've been listening to many different types of music throughout my life, Classical does have a lot more complexities, and some genre are just so blatently simplistic, you want to murder the musician.

Whether or not you like it, doesn't mean it's not music. They contain the root factors of what music is, so you have to deal with it.

The hardest music to compose these days is electronica. I could go into this, but you'd most likely not listen to me, and take me for some jumbled up idiot. If you want to talk about what genre is the hardest to compose in, because I've compose from Classical to hiphop, to noise. Just IM me:

AIM: Trapped9Dots
_________________________________
Now, since you (el_farlo), won't get done reading this and the next post will probably be this one ripped apart into degrading immature statements that hold no objectivity or thought. I'll post this now.

Grow the fuck up and learn to enjoy all music and stop being a blind idiot who tries to ruin it for everyone. If you have an opinion, shut the fuck up because we don't want to hear it.

Farlo · Post by **Farlo** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 3:52 pm

no im not as narrow minded as you think, i just think rap could bennifit from people who make their own music, instead of having someone else create it for them(ferrel). now for the lyrics...listen to the stupid lyrics of 98% of rap(i give 2% because some people in the rap world are artists(amazing huh)...but the overwhelming majority of it is just useless crap. most metal(my prefered style) is being taken over by people who have no idea how to write a song(nu metal)....i listen to music for the lyrics, and for the music, and if one is missing, then its not a very good style of music for me...you do however have the right to listen to whatever style of music(or garbage) that you want to, my argument has been made, so now i will be quite

tutterbutter · Post by **tutterbutter** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:04 pm

If I may be so bold to point you guys to something that sucks and is truly horrible please click your ways to Wing.

http://www.wingmusic.co.nz/listen.html

Shes a brave woman isnt she.. its the most hurtful thing my ears have experienced..

That is true crap

Tutter

Nonagon · Post by **Nonagon** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 5:35 pm

el_farlo wrote:no im not as narrow minded as you think, i just think rap could bennifit from people who make their own music, instead of having someone else create it for them(ferrel). now for the lyrics...listen to the stupid lyrics of 98% of rap(i give 2% because some people in the rap world are artists(amazing huh)...but the overwhelming majority of it is just useless crap. most metal(my prefered style) is being taken over by people who have no idea how to write a song(nu metal)....i listen to music for the lyrics, and for the music, and if one is missing, then its not a very good style of music for me...you do however have the right to listen to whatever style of music(or garbage) that you want to, my argument has been made, so now i will be quite

Again, you're pigeonholing rap into a small section of artists who don't write their own lyrics or their own songs, and you don't have any backing information when you say "stupid lyrics of 98% of rap".

Back up your goddamn arguement!

Metal is good, I can respect Metal artists, esspecially metal artists who are skilled at their trade. But I believe the metal community has to be the most stuck up bunch of assholes I've ever met who can't take in the fact that stuff they don't like is liked by other people. You obviously can't handle the fact that people have different tastes.

Bloodyfäng · Post by **Bloodyfäng** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:29 pm

Ok..

Rap is like any other kind of music genre to me. I pick and chose the ARTISTS I like. Do you know what that means? OMG! I may even like some pop songs

borpii · Post by **borpii** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:38 pm

Don't listen to narrow-minded fucktarded people; rap is just as good and better than most other music. Most other music originated from it. There is no reason to curse and throw feces b/c someone says "rap"! I, for one, like it. 50 cent is a great artist and a fine piece of man meat if I do say so myself. (that didn't sound right, did it?) Ja Rule is and Big Pun was and Tupac will always be!!!!!!!!!

Rap is better than heavy metal----don't shoot me!

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Wed Jun 18, 2003 7:09 pm

Ok, chill.

Rap, personally, I attribute more to poetry than to music. Really, because it is.

Real music - please don't mess with that definition. Look in my profile to see why (that's been there since I joined).

Questions:

1) What is a real instrument?

2) What is nu-metal?

3) What is music?

My current answers...

1) Anything that produces sound when manipulated by a human

2) Let's just say that if it's what I think it means, I'd be addressing people who DON'T like it in most unpleasant terms.

3) Arrangment of sounds in time.