Nightwish is terribly inconsistant.

MetalWolf · Post by **MetalWolf** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:25 am

I don't mean to step on anyones toes here but it sort of annoys me when people say they dislike a band because they dont change (Example: AC/DC), and then some people say they hate the band because they did change (Example:Metallica). I know its all a matter of choice and opinion but its just irritating to me. I feel its always safer for a band to stay close to the same sound or style they play, not screwing with the formula was never a bad idea in my book, it keeps the fan base while there will be the typicals with the "oh they always sound the same" thats because thats their sound, their style and they stick with it at least you know (lets say in Nightwish's case) they wont turn into a polka band or etc. You change and you get a 50/50 chance of the fan base either loving it or hating it not to mention people new to the band and they will have their own way of excepting it. Me I much rather a band thats constant with their style and sound while improving upon the formula with slight tweaks. Of course I don't mind some bands who change their sound too but in my opinion only a short list of artists/bands have been able to pull it off in my eyes/ears. Look at AC/DC or Motorhead, they always stayed the same in most cases and people still love them. You look at Metallica, they change and boom many hate them.
In the point of Nightwish maybe thats what they are consistent with, change. Thats their style, just change a bit in each album they go through (however I much prefer Wishmaster over the rest of their albums). I dont know, I am not an expert in these matters thats just what I think.

Flint the Dwarf · Post by **Flint the Dwarf** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:36 am

MetalWolf wrote:I don't mean to step on anyones toes here but it sort of annoys me when people say they dislike a band because they dont change (Example: AC/DC), and then some people say they hate the band because they did change (Example:Metallica).

Keep in mind, Nailz still loves Nightwish.

MetalWolf · Post by **MetalWolf** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:41 am

flint_the_dwarf wrote:
MetalWolf wrote:I don't mean to step on anyones toes here but it sort of annoys me when people say they dislike a band because they dont change (Example: AC/DC), and then some people say they hate the band because they did change (Example:Metallica).
Keep in mind, Nailz still loves Nightwish. :?

I know that

Flint the Dwarf · Post by **Flint the Dwarf** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:07 pm

Okay.

RobLoge85 · Post by **RobLoge85** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:52 pm

Nothing to do with the topic but has to do with Nightwish: I just listened to them for the first time and I liked it, may take a few listens getting used to the vox though... I'm not used to hearing Tarja's vocals with rock/metal music.

nailz · Post by **nailz** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:41 pm

what ARE you used to listening to Tarja's vocals with?

FirestormXIII · Post by **FirestormXIII** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:17 am

nailz1000 wrote:what ARE you used to listening to Tarja's vocals with?

Hot sexx0r in my bed

/off topic-ness

Set_Abominae · Post by **Set_Abominae** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:48 pm

Nightwish may be inconsistant but that's not something I'd hold against any band. As long as the music is good, I don't see the problem. I love Nightwish and no matter what direction they've gone to, they have yet to displease me.

SiberWolf · Post by **SiberWolf** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:20 pm

nailz1000 wrote:They only HAVE 4 Albums. (I'm counting only the 4 studio albums: Angels, Oceanborn, Wishmaster, and Century Child) ... And none of these albums show any kind of natural progression in their musical sound. You've got Angels, which as you said, seems majorly experimental with their sound, Oceanborn, which is probably the most consistant (and thus, best) sounding album, which I think should have allowed the band to take a direction in their own sound. Then you jump to the slightly chaotic Wishmaster... which is a GREAT album, alas with nearly no flow to the songs past She is My Sin and Kinslayer, to the LARGELY Chaotic and just plain TERRIBLE Century Child. My point is, if they had progressed a little and attempted to refine their sound from Wishmaster TO Century Child, then I could see it, but it was just SO much different from everything else they had put out, it was just like What IS this? ... On top of that, the song pace is all over the map, with the INCREDIBLE 1-2-3 punch of Bless the Child, End of All Hope, and Dead to the World ... which if the album followed the same style, would have been amazing... but then they throw a curveball with Everdream, and then BACK to heavy with Slaying the Dreamer.

My point is that their Consistancy over albums seems to mirror the Song Arrangement on Century Child. (whoever arranged these songs should be shot in the head.)

I'd tend to disagree. Sure, it's not a minor refinement when you go to Century Child, it's more major, but they still retain a very similar sound. To be honest, if the first 3 albums sounded much more similar, they'd almost become boring. Just different enough to be great though. But it was time for a change, and I honestly don't think it was a bad change. Definitely not a complete change though. More epic sounding, a little less overly accentuated fast beats. Cleaner. Clearer.

Personally, Oceanborn is my least favorite album. I still love it, but it's boring. Nothing really original sounding. The whole album, and each song even, blurs into a nearly indistinguishable mass.

Angels Fall First had some addicting riffs. Past the 5 minute mark of Beauty and The Beast is some sounds I couldn't get out of my head for months. The slow, methodic song Angels Fall First is beautifully followed by Tutankhamen. A complete change of pace, and a nice pickup from the almost depressing song prior. Then another turnaround with Nymphomanic Fantasia, which itself forms into a heavier song, yet it's nothing like Tutankhamen.

Wishmaster started off strong with the first 2 songs (She is my Sin and Kinslayer), although these both have very similar sounds driving them. Come Convert Me picks it up though, with sounds that almost indicate the changes to come in Century Child (as does Bare Grace Misery). A little more epic sound, a touch of cleanup, and Dead Boy's Poem could easily be mistaken for a Century Child song. Overall though, the album does still have a lot of the same flaws (perhaps virtues to some) that I see in the 2 earlier works.

Century Child really doesn't flow as badly as one may suggest. If your idea of flow is every song sounding the same except perhaps with a double drum beat here instead of a single, or 2 C chords strummed in place of that E, then yes, it doesn't flow. But that would become so mundane that it would be worthless after a month (hence the reason I stopped listening to Oceanborn for a long time, it just wasn't entertaining). Century Child changes the sound, but it still flows just fine. Ever Dream seems perfectly placed to me. It keeps Dead to the World from mixing (badly) with Slaying The Dreamer. If anything, End of All Hope sounds the most out of place, yet it still lines up a good theme.

Try some Dream Theater albums. Excellently built, great flow, but they don't even maintain the song pace within the songs themselves. And their sound has undergone a very similar change to that of Nightwish over time. Compare, say, Images and Words to Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. Obviously the same band, but a much different, cleaner sound on the latter. Easily comparable to the shift to Century Child.

Really though, it doesn't matter that much how you describe it. Nobody ever agrees about music (debates over the similarity/difference of Lacuna Coil and Evanescence have driven me insane). All that matters is how it sounds. All Nightwish sounds good, but my opinion remains that Century Child is their best work to date, and has an excellent song layout.

nailz · Post by **nailz** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:44 pm

I hate prog metal.