I wish scientists would just make up their mind.

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:17 pm

DanielWang wrote:A bunch of stuff

Partially agreed. It has less to do with Jesus' teaching and more to do with those who squandered it in the wake. Further more, the real problem is that every idiot gets a bible these days, reads a few passages from every other book, and makes up the rest and then goes around selling their half-wits like it's the absolute truth.

Possibly the greatest thing about the case of Warped here is the fact that he reads the bible religiously (no pun) but doesn't know a single bit of church history. He thinks the Council of Nicea, the single most important council in the history of the church, was some secret council. He's also saying that the Christian belief in reincarnation was a bunch of crap and all, with no references. Then he goes off on some big thing about people bein pissed off at Christians and all historical evidence is false cause you didn't go back and witness it yourself o_O

Anyway, some quotes from the fathers of the church (cept Plato):

"Know that if you become worse you will go to the worse souls, and if better, to the better souls; and in every succession of life and death you will and suffer what like must fitly suffer at the hands of like"

Plato - (582 - 507 B.C.), The Republic

"Every soul... comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of it previous life. Its place in this world as a vessel appointed to honor or dishonor, is determined by its previous merits or demerits. Its work in this world determines its place in the world which is to follow this."

Origen - De Principiis (185 - 254 A.D.)

"... it is absolutely necessary that the soul should be healed and purified, and if this does not take place during its life on earth, it must be accomplished in future lives."

St. Gregory - (257 - 332 A.D.)

"The message of Plato, the purest and the most luminous of all philosophy, has at last scattered the darkness of error, and now shines forth mainly in Plotinus, a Platonist so like his master that one would think they lived together, or rather, since so long a period of time separates them - that Plato was born again in Plotinus."

St. Augustine - (354 - 430 A.D.)

Not to mention Pitis Sophia quotes Jesus as saying "Souls are poured from one into another of different bodies of the world." and the blatant words in the canonized scripture "9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Boom. Either these people were REAL stupid or the guy had to have been alive before he was born as the blind guy.

Anyway pick up any dead sea scroll for a peek at the fact that the Essenes and Pharisees believed in transmigration of souls (read: reincarnation).

Yeah, yeah you're wrong. The end.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:58 am

What bugs me, not with the bible, not with religion, not with athiesim, but with people in general is that they DON'T take their beliefes very seriously. They simply find something to rationalize their existence, and once they've found it, that it their done. Bible thumpers who don't actually READ the bible, try to interpret what it says, or live their life they way it says to bug me as much as athiests who can't defend their viewpoints with scientific evidence.

But as far as I'm concerned, the scientific community seems as concerned with disproving religion, as religion is with disproving science. Every generation is gong to have it's variation of spontanious generation, and it's Louis Pasteur to disprove it.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 1:05 am

oh, and I suggest people watch their step and what they say.

If one of these guys runs into one of these guys things will get REAL ugly REAL quick.

Gaikotsu · Post by **Gaikotsu** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 1:12 am

Well, here's my defense of my atheism: (part of it anyway. I don't want to end up droning on and on).

It's been awhile since I've picked up a Bible, but if I remember correctly, Adam and Eve's punishment for committing the original sin was being kicked out of the Garden of Eden, and being fated to eventually die. As such, death was part of God's punishment for committing the original sin. This would seem to indicate that prior to that sin, Eden was a deathless paradise.

And yet, if the theory of evolution is true, (and there is an abundance of evidence suggesting that to be the case: the fossil record, comparable embryology, vestigial organs, etc.), then creatures lived and died long before Man ever existed. If death existed before the original sin, then it could not feasibly be a punishment for that sin. Therefore, there is no sin, and as such, no need for a savior to die for the redemption of the sins of mankind.

Furthermore, by that reasoning, there is nothing upon which the goodness or badness of an individual person, and their soul can be universally judged. What is morally right or wrong becomes relative to the individual.

For me, this causes one of the major pillars upon which Christianity is founded to crumble. As I mentioned, I could say more, and I probably left a few points out of this argument, but I've been up for quite awhile now, and I'm a bit tired. Also, this is not an attack on anyone; I was merely showing CaTaClYsM that at least some of us back up our viewpoints.

)v(ajin Koji · Post by **)v(ajin Koji** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 7:15 am

egh, religon sucks....especiallywhen it ruins my weekend like tihs

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:25 pm

http://www.ffrf.org/lfif/contra.html

word?

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 2:15 am

Can't we all agree on the one TRUE REAL THING, which is beer?

I'm swimming in a million currents. Are you?

azulmagia · Post by **azulmagia** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:21 am

kthulhu wrote:Can't we all agree on the one TRUE REAL THING, which is beer?

I'm swimming in a million currents. Are you?

Top 10 Reasons Why Beer Is Better Than Jesus
10. No one will kill you for not drinking Beer.
9. Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.
8. Beer has never caused a major war.
7. They don't force Beer on minors who can't think for themselves.
6. When you have a Beer, you don't knock on people's doors trying to
give it away.
5. Nobody's ever been burned at the stake, hanged, or tortured over his
brand of Beer.
4. You don't have to wait 2000+ years for a second Beer.
3. There are laws saying Beer labels can't lie to you.
2. You can prove you have a Beer.
1. If you've devoted your life to Beer, there are groups to help you stop.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:47 am

Thank you, sir or madam, for further backing up my statement.

R-A-N-M-A · Post by **R-A-N-M-A** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:59 am

Are you sure beer never caused a war, sounds like an awfully german thing to do...