You mean the fee people pay for an internet connection?Arigatomyna wrote:Call it a highly discounted ice cream. The cheapest, widest variety of icecream you'll find, but not quite free considering the members pay to buy the icecream being distributed. Who knows, maybe if they paid more they'd get to choose the flavors once in a while...MCWagner wrote: We're sorry that the free ice cream isn't your favorite flavor. Would you care for us to refund your subscription?
Off Topic Section Removed
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jonmartensen
- Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:50 pm
- Location: Gimmickville USA
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Arigatomina
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:04 am
- Contact:
Only if the internet connection is what MC was saying the org provides, but doesn't offer flavor choices for. Which I don't think he was.jonmartensen wrote:You mean the fee people pay for an internet connection?Arigatomyna wrote:Call it a highly discounted ice cream. The cheapest, widest variety of icecream you'll find, but not quite free considering the members pay to buy the icecream being distributed. Who knows, maybe if they paid more they'd get to choose the flavors once in a while...MCWagner wrote: We're sorry that the free ice cream isn't your favorite flavor. Would you care for us to refund your subscription?
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fyrtenheimer
- Joined: Sun May 05, 2002 11:34 am
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MCWagner
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:37 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
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EarthCurrent
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:27 pm
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NineBirds
- Joined: Sat May 10, 2003 10:48 am
- Location: MD, USA
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*tioma*
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:22 pm
- Location: Golden Saucer
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MCWagner
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:37 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
Hokay, trying again on a different computer (stupid bluescreen crash).
Everyone seems to think that I or the mods or Phade has made the statment that "everyone who posted to OT or WOT are asshole flamers". This was never said. What WAS said, was that there were TOO MANY flamers/spammers/necroposters in OT and WOT. How many is too many? It was never said. One thing that has become abundantly clear through OT and WOT was that a single member can become a nuiscence completely out of proportion to their membership. Opening multiple accounts, pretending to be someone else, necroposting twenty topics, spamming, reposting modded posts, releasing "bots" into the forum to repeatedly repost deleted topics. You all are assuming that Phade hates everyone in the OT and WOT forums. That's quite an assumption. Especially since you're judging from the words of someone who just had to hack a limb off his hobby because it had gotten all gangrenous. Maybe you should cut him a little slack for a bit, and stop searching for hidden meanings in his posts.
Here's a little test. Did you necropost? Flame? Open multiple accounts? Pretend to be someone else (or similar disruptive stunt)? Sneak back in after being banned? Attempt to get a rise out of the mods? Insult Phade because you were bored? Throw a temper tantrum? No? Then you're probably not the one being talked about. If you did......congratulations, you were being an immature asshole and contributing to the problem. You were warned repeatedly, and kept doing it. Your posts were deleted and you kept doing it. You're an asshole. I saw all this going on, got disgusted, and left.
"But why weren't these people dealt with individually?"
They were. For two years. At some point there's just too many nettles in the strawberry patch to call it a garden any more. Time to plough it under and leave it fallow.
"But now GA and GM will do exactly the same thing!" Possibly, but I doubt it. Unless someone just wants to shut this whole place down, the worst offenders might learn a lession about playing nice with others now that their favorite toy was taken away. Besides, this place is about Anime and Music, so those sections are rather essential to the whole purpose of the site. OT and WOT was just a way to keep crap out of the other forums. They had not purpose of their own. They were always useless. If GA and GM become as useless and abused as OT was, I'm betting that the whole forum will just come down. No point in keeping it then, much less having people actively moderate it.
"But Phade called us useless! I'm insulted!" Hey, you're the one putting yourself into that group. Phade said "It has become too much of a clique/social gathering of people who are not really contributing to world of anime music videos." How much is too much? If an anime club I went to started to gather neo-Nazi skinheads into its ranks, it wouldn't take very many for me to decide that "this place has become too much of a social gathering of neo-Nazis for me to want to be here anymore" and leave. Again, he never said that everyone posting in there was a useless lump. You interpreted that. Phade appears to define "useful" as "contributing ideas, expertise, or help to the site and AMVs in general."
CAT: You really want to start a semantics argument? *Sigh* OK, here's the relevant definitions (though I prefer the more concise versions from m-w.com): A narrow circle of persons associated by common interests or for the accomplishment of a common purpose; -- generally used in a bad sense.
Let's see...."narrow circle"....."common interest"..... Easily applied to either group. "bad sense".... so you have to not like them. Therefore you would use it to describe the mods. Since, apparently, you don't like them. Phade would use it to describe the group of people who continually gather together to insult him, sneak around the rules, and generally make his life hell....because he doesn't like them. (Surprise Surprise) So it's equally valid either way.
To associate together in a clannish way; to act with others secretly to gain a desired end; to plot; -- used with together.
Same point, verb form.
an exclusive circle of people with a common purpose
Again, same point, only actively limiting membership, and no negative connotations. Equally applicable.
I don't speak for individuals other than myself, so someone else can speak to Nappy and Ar.
Vegita, you're not paying attention, and making assumptions all over the place. When Hatter was posting in GA was he flaming, necroposting, spamming, or otherwise making a nuiscence of himself? No? Then it wasn't adversely affecting the forum. Yes? Then the forum DID become less interesting for having to wade through all of his crap to find the good posts. Hatter isn't any kind of Typhoid Mary or Tourett's patient, he can actually behave. He just chooses not to. Does it adversely affect the BOARD? Yes, yes it does. Evidence? Well, I for one got disgusted with the constant stream of crap, and left, no longer wanting to be associated with somewhere that encouraged that. If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Posting convention announcements was pretty much my sole input to the board. I suppose I'll leave it up to you to determine if I was "useful" or not.
(Your example is another matter. I agree that the person was being an asshole and thus wasn't being "useful", actually detrimental, to the board. He shoulda been smacked down. Similarly, you have to agree that a lot of flaming was going on in OT and WOT. Similarly useless, and detrimental. So it should be squashed, right? And if it just runs out of all control, the whole OT section should be squashed, right? That's what happened. You seem to be convinced that "popular" editors get a pass on stuff like this. I agree this is wrong. Did you drop a note in the mod box about it? Oh, and that's a contradiction, not a paradox.)
Ar: I fail to see how you're paying for this ice cream at all. However, if you'll put a price on it, I'll personally refund you your expense. Of course, you'll have to return what's left of what you took.....
Everyone seems to think that I or the mods or Phade has made the statment that "everyone who posted to OT or WOT are asshole flamers". This was never said. What WAS said, was that there were TOO MANY flamers/spammers/necroposters in OT and WOT. How many is too many? It was never said. One thing that has become abundantly clear through OT and WOT was that a single member can become a nuiscence completely out of proportion to their membership. Opening multiple accounts, pretending to be someone else, necroposting twenty topics, spamming, reposting modded posts, releasing "bots" into the forum to repeatedly repost deleted topics. You all are assuming that Phade hates everyone in the OT and WOT forums. That's quite an assumption. Especially since you're judging from the words of someone who just had to hack a limb off his hobby because it had gotten all gangrenous. Maybe you should cut him a little slack for a bit, and stop searching for hidden meanings in his posts.
Here's a little test. Did you necropost? Flame? Open multiple accounts? Pretend to be someone else (or similar disruptive stunt)? Sneak back in after being banned? Attempt to get a rise out of the mods? Insult Phade because you were bored? Throw a temper tantrum? No? Then you're probably not the one being talked about. If you did......congratulations, you were being an immature asshole and contributing to the problem. You were warned repeatedly, and kept doing it. Your posts were deleted and you kept doing it. You're an asshole. I saw all this going on, got disgusted, and left.
"But why weren't these people dealt with individually?"
They were. For two years. At some point there's just too many nettles in the strawberry patch to call it a garden any more. Time to plough it under and leave it fallow.
"But now GA and GM will do exactly the same thing!" Possibly, but I doubt it. Unless someone just wants to shut this whole place down, the worst offenders might learn a lession about playing nice with others now that their favorite toy was taken away. Besides, this place is about Anime and Music, so those sections are rather essential to the whole purpose of the site. OT and WOT was just a way to keep crap out of the other forums. They had not purpose of their own. They were always useless. If GA and GM become as useless and abused as OT was, I'm betting that the whole forum will just come down. No point in keeping it then, much less having people actively moderate it.
"But Phade called us useless! I'm insulted!" Hey, you're the one putting yourself into that group. Phade said "It has become too much of a clique/social gathering of people who are not really contributing to world of anime music videos." How much is too much? If an anime club I went to started to gather neo-Nazi skinheads into its ranks, it wouldn't take very many for me to decide that "this place has become too much of a social gathering of neo-Nazis for me to want to be here anymore" and leave. Again, he never said that everyone posting in there was a useless lump. You interpreted that. Phade appears to define "useful" as "contributing ideas, expertise, or help to the site and AMVs in general."
CAT: You really want to start a semantics argument? *Sigh* OK, here's the relevant definitions (though I prefer the more concise versions from m-w.com): A narrow circle of persons associated by common interests or for the accomplishment of a common purpose; -- generally used in a bad sense.
Let's see...."narrow circle"....."common interest"..... Easily applied to either group. "bad sense".... so you have to not like them. Therefore you would use it to describe the mods. Since, apparently, you don't like them. Phade would use it to describe the group of people who continually gather together to insult him, sneak around the rules, and generally make his life hell....because he doesn't like them. (Surprise Surprise) So it's equally valid either way.
To associate together in a clannish way; to act with others secretly to gain a desired end; to plot; -- used with together.
Same point, verb form.
an exclusive circle of people with a common purpose
Again, same point, only actively limiting membership, and no negative connotations. Equally applicable.
I don't speak for individuals other than myself, so someone else can speak to Nappy and Ar.
Vegita, you're not paying attention, and making assumptions all over the place. When Hatter was posting in GA was he flaming, necroposting, spamming, or otherwise making a nuiscence of himself? No? Then it wasn't adversely affecting the forum. Yes? Then the forum DID become less interesting for having to wade through all of his crap to find the good posts. Hatter isn't any kind of Typhoid Mary or Tourett's patient, he can actually behave. He just chooses not to. Does it adversely affect the BOARD? Yes, yes it does. Evidence? Well, I for one got disgusted with the constant stream of crap, and left, no longer wanting to be associated with somewhere that encouraged that. If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Posting convention announcements was pretty much my sole input to the board. I suppose I'll leave it up to you to determine if I was "useful" or not.
(Your example is another matter. I agree that the person was being an asshole and thus wasn't being "useful", actually detrimental, to the board. He shoulda been smacked down. Similarly, you have to agree that a lot of flaming was going on in OT and WOT. Similarly useless, and detrimental. So it should be squashed, right? And if it just runs out of all control, the whole OT section should be squashed, right? That's what happened. You seem to be convinced that "popular" editors get a pass on stuff like this. I agree this is wrong. Did you drop a note in the mod box about it? Oh, and that's a contradiction, not a paradox.)
Ar: I fail to see how you're paying for this ice cream at all. However, if you'll put a price on it, I'll personally refund you your expense. Of course, you'll have to return what's left of what you took.....
Als Gregor Samsa eines Morgens aus unruhigen Träumen erwachte, fand er sich in seinem Bett zu einem ungeheueren Ungeziefer verwandelt.
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MCWagner
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:37 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
You know, I remember way back when this place first started up we got a couple of people in here complaining that the forum was nothing but one giant self-affirmation group. A whole bunch of hobbyists patting one another on the back and telling each other how great they were.EarthCurrent wrote:Can we just get on with the removal of the entirety of the forums?
Seriously. Apparently no one is happy.
I'm pretty sure I liked that better than what we've got now.
Als Gregor Samsa eines Morgens aus unruhigen Träumen erwachte, fand er sich in seinem Bett zu einem ungeheueren Ungeziefer verwandelt.
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madmallard
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2001 6:07 pm
- Status: Cracked up quacker, quacked up cracker
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
you don't pay for the msg board when you donate. In fact, you don't pay for anything when you donate, you simply donate. Not invest, not buy, but donate. In MCs reference, the message board is the icecream, not the hosting.arigatomyna wrote:Another difference is that homeless people rairly pay for the charity the way some donators do here, they don't pay for the privilege of being told to go somewhere else if you don't like it. . .The cheapest, widest variety of icecream you'll find, but not quite free considering the members pay to buy the icecream being distributed. Who knows, maybe if they paid more they'd get to choose the flavors once in a while...
while I agree that posting in OT doesn't inherantly make one annoying(except for me, i'm always annoying), should we also discount the fact that many of those who were producing annoying dead weight content have dissappeared after nearly a week?MJ wrote:Annoying individuals can post on any number of different sections of the forums, saying OT was the sole reason for their presence and behavior doesn't seem fair to me.
while that point can be argued at length, nobody is talking about a subjective view of useful. you dont make videos, you don't donate, you don't support, you just shoot the breeze and heckle other users as well as waste bandwidth; its pretty well accepted this is not a 'useful person.'ssv wrote:Exhibit A: I see a member who makes VERY good AMVs post in AMV Announcements telling some n00b that his first video is absolutely terrible and they should just quit because they'll never be able to produce anything that people will enjoy. Is the person being a generally good, or "useful", member of the community? Some would say yes, because he makes fabulous and enjoyable videos, others would say no, because he' s discouraging people from editing. This is what I see the paradox of the word "useful" in terms of the org at least, and the reason that any arguement making the general statement that "useful" people were driven away by 3 sections at the bottom of the forum simply can't be made
and your point? Or did you forget this was a privately owned and operated forum? So what if it is?cat wrote:Now that that's established, lets move on to the part where the anime forum gets the axe. Now people are starting to complain about the mindless clutter going on THERE. Pretty soon the forums are going to be invitation only, or shut down completely. I know it.
At the very least, its a morbid facination like looking at a gnarly car wreck.9birds wrote:I think it's funny that you guys have nothing better to do but whine and argue semantics.
Main Events Director Anime Weekend Atlanta, Kawaii-kon