Negative Image of Women?

OtakuMegane · Post by **OtakuMegane** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:26 am

ein-stein wrote:On topic question: What would you say to someone, most likely female, that dislikes anime because that person is turned off by "the negative image of women in anime" in order to have that person have a more postive attitude toward anime? (i.e. What would you tell my sister [see very first post])

Do they watch "normal" American TV? Show them some network TV that degrades women(shouldn't be too hard). Guess they can't watch the networks, huh? Then hunt up the cable channels like Oxygen that are "TV for women", and pickout example of men being degraded(again, shouldn't be too hard...at least, it wasn't last time I watched Oxygen). Gee, what's with women degrading men, you hypocrite?! Looks like she can't watch TV at all, cause it's all degrading.

Or movies for that matter, men and women both degraded there too.

Summary: point out other examples of degrading women or men that they conveniently "forget". If they still persist after that, well, it's not worth your time, cause they're in denial.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:44 am

If they dislike it because of the degrading stereotypes, don't *remind* them of why they dislike it so much. Chances are, they dislike the same thing in American television and movies (not every female who finds a majority of anime degrading is a hypocrite who loves to see women degraded in 'live-action' movies).

Why don't you ask her what is *not* degrading to her? Find out what characteristics or portrayals she finds appealing in a female character. Find out what personality traits she finds respectable in a female with a leading role in a series. Then match that description up with an anime that fits the bill. There *are* anime females who are not degraded, it's just a matter of showing her the sort of anime that will appeal to her. If you know she dislikes certain stereotypes, just find an anime that doesn't *use* those stereotypes. Find out what she thinks is distasteful, and give her something without that degrading aspect. Find out what sort of 'female' she would prefer to see and give it to her - as varied as anime is, it shouldn't be impossible. I'm quite picky when it comes to liking female characters, but I've managed to find a few who were not at all degraded by the typical 'add-ons' - it's just a matter of knowing what to look for (and what to avoid).

Mroni · Post by **Mroni** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:24 am

What about all the "Beautiful boys in anime aren't they just eye candy for girls. God I feel so degraded not being as beautiful as they are

Mr Oni

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:47 am

Mroni wrote:What about all the "Beautiful boys in anime aren't they just eye candy for girls. God I feel so degraded not being as beautiful as they are

What about it? I'd never argue with that since it's pretty obvious when some anime 'prettify' males the same way others 'enhance' females to further fanservice. I'd just suggest you watch some anime where appearance is combined with non-degrading characteristics. But it's less common since many anime feature ugly or 'plain' looking guys getting impossibly large-breasted beauties in love with them - that makes very few complaints about gorgeous guys. It just isn't as common. Sure, the degredation is there, but not as frequent.

And this thread isn't about that (start a new one about males degraded in anime and I'll definitely participate). ^.~

OtakuMegane · Post by **OtakuMegane** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 10:54 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:If they dislike it because of the degrading stereotypes, don't *remind* them of why they dislike it so much. Chances are, they dislike the same thing in American television and movies (not every female who finds a majority of anime degrading is a hypocrite who loves to see women degraded in 'live-action' movies).

If they have an honest problem with something, I'll address it, sure.

Unfortunately, the type I most often encounter *are* the ones that just want to be an ass about something that isn't "perfect" in their eyes. You know, the type that say video games turn kids into serial killers, yet don't work very hard to stop their own 12-year-old from watching R-rated movies. Or that say Bush is criticized too much, yet 4 years ago they were being equally critical of Clinton.

Many refuse to even consider they might be wrong. Those types I like to a) annoy them by showing they are being hypocritical, or b) make them look stupid when they refuse to accept that something in their argument isn't totally valid.

Sorry if I sound a bit grumpy on this. I live in Atlanta(the Bible Belt), and there are a lot of conservative people here. That like to make(or try to make) other people follow what they think is right. I've gotten sort of jaded.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:18 am

Captain Tylor wrote:Sorry if I sound a bit grumpy on this. I live in Atlanta(the Bible Belt), and there are a lot of conservative people here. That like to make(or try to make) other people follow what they think is right. I've gotten sort of jaded.

No, I know the type you mean. I just don't like to see anyone jump to conclusions. I know a number of female anime fans who see 'degredation' in a lot of anime - but they can still usually find a series or two that don't degredate anime girls. I like to think anime is varied enough for that. ^_^

Toecutter · Post by **Toecutter** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:50 am

Ok, enough with the wife/kitchen jokes.

On topic question: What would you say to someone, most likely female, that dislikes anime because that person is turned off by "the negative image of women in anime" in order to have that person have a more postive attitude toward anime? (i.e. What would you tell my sister [see very first post])

P.S. It is amazing how close-minded people can be, especially in the context of liberal thought like feminism, PC, etc. OMG liberals can be close-minded?!?! :feins icon_eek.gif :

This is what I'd say:

"Who cares about the slutty women? I'm into it for the ass-kicking giant robots! I'd marry one of those in a heartbeat!"

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:02 pm

On topic question: What would you say to someone, most likely female, that dislikes anime because that person is turned off by "the negative image of women in anime" in order to have that person have a more postive attitude toward anime? (i.e. What would you tell my sister [see very first post])

I'd say... Do you have a problem with good-looking women, or is it just that you don't like how some women are portrayed with less than perfect personalities sometimes? If you're going to get caught up in something as nonexistant as this you aren't really into any kind of media or literature, are you?

Darksyde · Post by **Darksyde** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 1:31 pm

I think it's nice to see a cute girl's face in an anime once in a while.

NineBirds · Post by **NineBirds** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:39 am

It's cool how many people completely miss the point.

On topic question: What would you say to someone, most likely female, that dislikes anime because that person is turned off by "the negative image of women in anime" in order to have that person have a more postive attitude toward anime? (i.e. What would you tell my sister [see very first post])

I'd tell her to see anime as an art style, not a genre. It is not the anime itself that is sexist, but the culture it's exported from. There are good anime out there--I present Cowboy Bebop as an example.

Presenting a non-degrading image of women in anime is not about presenting an image of a super-powerful, ass-kicking, "I don't need emotions", stereotypical "girl power" female. I see that superhuman stereotype as degrading as the submissive female one. Just present women as they really are--human. With personalities, likes and dislikes, standards and a spine.