end of Evangelion (episodes 25 and 26) - confused

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:39 pm

EoE definetly had a happy ending, what with the blue sky and the rei and the kaworu and all that.... but the way the gloomy final scene goes into Cannon in D Major and the credits, it's just so powerful... aww.... Oh and one more thing, I think a lot of EoE's depressingness has to be with all the death in it. I think a lot of people would still be depressed even without that final scene, even though that scene definetly has that atmosphere to it.

Anyway, as much as I like the two endings seperately. A Super-Ending would be superb. Especailly if you add Death at the beggining, and then have Evangelion's ends spliced together in some kind of way. I think it would work for the most part, the only thing that I can think of that wouldn't work is - which scene do you pick for instances when EoE and EoTV actually overlap, not the same images but the same ideas? That'd be interesting anyway...

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:11 pm

the scenes that overlap are...
EoTV starts with instrumentality if i remember correcting, but anyway

the super ending would start with EoE because that's where the series leaves off, everything that happens on the surface story wouls still happen, nerv being attacked, eva series unleashed, uber-rei going to help shinji
but when shinji has his little confrontation with asuka, right when he starts choking her that's when instrumentality begins, so you would need a smooth transition to the EoTV
Then at the point where ep. 26 ends and shinji is given his congrats, you can go to the scene where Eva Unit 01 rips out of uber-rei's 3rd eye, showing us in the physical realm that shinji has chosen a life with AT fields seperating our hearts causing us to feel pain once more, but also happiness, then you can do the rest in EoE since we just did the cross-over and everything

course i would still propose that we remove the choking scene, i think asuka has gone through enough and it kinda takes away from the fact that she has found his own self-worth and love of a mother

the Black Monarch · Post by **the Black Monarch** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:41 pm

HeartbreakerByZep wrote: I doubt EoTV was put together two hours before show time, be reasonable. Monarch, just because you didn't get the intended effect from EoTV doesn't mean that it is incomplete.

Aside from the two-hour exaggeration, what I say is entirely grounded in fact. Remember the alternate reality scene from ep26, which starts out fully animated but degenerates into a felt-tip pen slideshow? Those stills are the ACTUAL STORYBOARDS, used because Gainax could not finish the episodes in time. Whether you want to admit it or not, the last two episodes are very much incomplete.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:51 pm

i agree/disagree

okay, i will agree that they are animation-wise incomplete, the storboards were used where they (if time permitted) could have animated everything fully (at least more smoothly, lol) so in that sense, YES they are incomplete

BUT emotionally for shinji, everything is complete, not only complete, but well emphasized, SHINJI's story is told and since he is the main character, that is enough to end the story with, afterall, i don't think that many people were watching the series to just see the actual artificial evolution of humans become initiated and fully animated... i'm sure there were some that were, but for the vast majority of the people that were watching evangelion because of the dilemas (sp?) within the actual characters, the series ends sufficiently well with the exception of some characters

so like you said, the EoTV is incomplete... but not to a point that you can disregard it as horrible or even bad, it was creatively done, and conclusive with the main main character

so in the end, for me EoE>EoTV
but i'm not abandoning EoTV anytime soon

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:12 pm

I don't even consider it incomplete. Obviously it is somewhat scratchy and the animation is not "complete." But what's to say that such an affect was intended, or is atleast a welcome side-effect to the lack of time? Lots of anime rely on atmospheric things to convey feelings, and the use of story boards to me seems like just a stylistic form of doing what needed to be done. Some of the animation should have been improved, but the story boards part is IMO essential, I wouldn't change it.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:16 am

HeartbreakerByZep wrote:Some of the animation should have been improved, but the story boards part is IMO essential, I wouldn't change it.

exactly my feeling on the matter, yes some of the scenes could and maybe should have been improved, but just because something could have been done, does not automatically mean that it should be done. the scenes work well enough so that i understand their message and it's enough, i don't think they need to be animated fully in beautiful color and steady lines, in fact i like the jitterness of some of the scenes, gave the episodes life imo

but i still believe that some of the characters didn't get all the attention they should have in the last two eps concerning instrumentality, but then again, since they only were going to do 2 episodes, they specifically said they do not have the time to show everything, so they will focus on the Case of Shinji Ikari.
8)

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:24 pm

Daio Kaji wrote:
HeartbreakerByZep wrote:
but i still believe that some of the characters didn't get all the attention they should have in the last two eps concerning instrumentality, but then again, since they only were going to do 2 episodes, they specifically said they do not have the time to show everything, so they will focus on the Case of Shinji Ikari.
8)

Yeah, that's definetly true. It would have been nice to see Gendou "insturmentalized" also. But I understand why it was like that, after all Anno was getting over his own problems, and he had put his problems into Shinji, and he is the main character anyway. More episodes could have been done, but more than 2 might have completely dampened it. On a semi-related note, isn't it interesting which parts of the series people like the most? I have a friend that I just finally convinced to watch Evangelion recently (he had had it in his grasp for so long and finally watched it) and he thinks that The End of Evangelion was a far less conclusive ending, and that the last 2 TV episodes are a great ending. Though, he's only seen EoE once and I bet the depressingness of it all had an affect. FYI his favorite episode is #24

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:39 pm

Daio Kaji wrote:
HeartbreakerByZep wrote:Some of the animation should have been improved, but the story boards part is IMO essential, I wouldn't change it.
but i still believe that some of the characters didn't get all the attention they should have in the last two eps concerning instrumentality, but then again, since they only were going to do 2 episodes, they specifically said they do not have the time to show everything, so they will focus on the Case of Shinji Ikari.
8)

i think the above is more of the type of quote you might have been going for 8)

HeartbreakerByZep wrote:Yeah, that's definetly true. It would have been nice to see Gendou "insturmentalized" also. But I understand why it was like that, after all Anno was getting over his own problems, and he had put his problems into Shinji, and he is the main character anyway. More episodes could have been done, but more than 2 might have completely dampened it. On a semi-related note, isn't it interesting which parts of the series people like the most? I have a friend that I just finally convinced to watch Evangelion recently (he had had it in his grasp for so long and finally watched it) and he thinks that The End of Evangelion was a far less conclusive ending, and that the last 2 TV episodes are a great ending. Though, he's only seen EoE once and I bet the depressingness of it all had an affect. FYI his favorite episode is #24

i can see where your friend is coming from, EoTV ends right at the climax of shinji's growth and acceptance of himself, but EoE goes further than that and puts the viewer back into the real world... but the problem is that the real world now looks like a disaster and doesn't at all reflect the feelings that shinji felt about himself at the end, the real world now more reflects what shinji used to be like and that brings EoE's closure level down just a tab

ep. 24 was kule, a lot to do with shinji finally finding someone that openly accepts him and he accepts him back, but then shinji had to fullfil the wish of Kaworu (his friend) and kill him.

wow, that's about all i can say (woo-hoo for eva)

the Black Monarch · Post by **the Black Monarch** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:59 am

Daio Kaji wrote:i don't think that many people were watching the series to just see the actual artificial evolution of humans become initiated and fully animated... i'm sure there were some that were, but for the vast majority of the people that were watching evangelion because of the dilemas (sp?) within the actual characters, the series ends sufficiently well with the exception of some characters

But EoE goes so much more into the character growth than EoTV, too! The shot of Gendo's broken glasses was much more powerful than anything from EoTV. Or how about that part where Misato finally convinces Shinji to get off his ass and help Asuka, only for him to find that he can't because Shogouki (unit 01) is stuck in the bakelite? Can you imagine what effect that must have had on his self-esteem? He's finally convinced that yes, he CAN help other people, and then 30 seconds later he finds out that he was right all along, and he can't help anyone. Ooh, and Asuka finally gets paid back for all that mean stuff she did to Shinji! And he gets straddled by Rei!

Bottom line, EoE isn't just eye candy - it also has more creative and carefully constructed character development than EoTV.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:09 pm

the Black Monarch wrote:But EoE goes so much more into the character growth than EoTV, too! The shot of Gendo's broken glasses was much more powerful than anything from EoTV. Or how about that part where Misato finally convinces Shinji to get off his ass and help Asuka, only for him to find that he can't because Shogouki (unit 01) is stuck in the bakelite? Can you imagine what effect that must have had on his self-esteem? He's finally convinced that yes, he CAN help other people, and then 30 seconds later he finds out that he was right all along, and he can't help anyone. Ooh, and Asuka finally gets paid back for all that mean stuff she did to Shinji! And he gets straddled by Rei!

Bottom line, EoE isn't just eye candy - it also has more creative and carefully constructed character development than EoTV.

yeah, that's basically where i'm going too, the character depth we saw with shinji in EoTV was extended to MORE characters in EoE, so that's why i'm gonna stick with...

Daio Kaji wrote:so in the end, for me EoE>EoTV
but i'm not abandoning EoTV anytime soon

8)