Hiei or Vegeta

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:53 pm

I don't know if I can be non-baised if I were to do Goku this way. Of DBZ and YYH - the two characters I like most are Hiei and Vegeta, so knowing their strong points and weak points (and manerisms/fighting style thought-wise) is fun for me. I really really dislike Goku, so I couldn't be unbiased.

But look at it this way - Hiei is to Yusuke what Vegeta is to Goku. He matches/surpasses, then Yusuke either gets some help (Kurama in their first match) or has some unexpected power-up (Sensui/Makai arc) to make him in an entirely different category. Yusuke is S class to Hiei's high A (at the end of the Sensui arc - Yusuke would be upper S and Hiei lower S by the Makai arc). Yusuke would be an even match with Goku because they both have that 'invincible no matter who the opponent is because I'm the star who always wins' thing going for them. A match between Yusuke and Goku would probably end with both becoming friends since they're both invincible.

Hiei isn't invincible - not on the level that main stars like Yusuke and Goku are - where even their weaknesses never stop them from being the strongest. Hiei has weaknesses that actually incapacitate him ever single time - he sleeps after using his power. Goku? He gets a little weak after going SSJ 3 for the first time as a living being - but he loses that by the end of the series and is using it constantly (end of series - dbz, I'm not touching GT's ssj4 at all).

Goku versus Hiei is like pitting Hiei versus Sensui. No chance. Everything in the anime universes are geared toward Goku always winning (unless his son wins with his help, or he wins by getting friends/etc to give him the power). Hiei fights alone and is subject to his limitations. Goku suprises even himself any time he is about to lose - the 'star' trick to make sure he's always the best.

Without even considering fighting styles, you know Goku would win just because he's Goku.

I can't do a map of his weaknesses and strengths because his weaknesses only exist until he surpises everyone with a new strength. I can't look at his strengths (skills) because if they don't work, he just lucks out and finds another super killing power from somewhere or another to do the trick. He's invincible - the entire dbz anime survives on that concept. Hiei is merely a secondary character who just happens to be as strong as the main character (Yusuke) until the viewers need to be reminded who the star is - in which case the main character is given an extra power to knock him onto a much higher level to eliminate any comparison. Goku is the same as Yusuke in this regard.

[Anyone who wants to list all of the possible ways Goku can defeat an enemy, feel free. Be sure to remember that he finds a new one for every new challenge - so you have to hypothesize what new trick he'd have if he were facing someone like Hiei. As it is, I'm sure he'd end up with something whether it's blind luck, or that hidden power that makes him win no matter how much it looks like he's losing.]

Bebop0083 · Post by **Bebop0083** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:31 pm

i was wondering when Ari was going to chime in

shameless plug

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=33627

this video will decide it all. eventually.

OujiVegetasstalker · Post by **OujiVegetasstalker** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:32 pm

....rather disappointing indeed...*sigh*

oh well, at least i still have my ohh soo vast neverending imagination to support me and my choice ruler....not to mention the many others.

*mutters to self* "...and everyone is still Vegeta's bitch for the taking, soo kinky...*drool drool*

DuoEnigma · Post by **DuoEnigma** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:27 am

I know this is off the topic, but is duo yaio also?!?!?!?!?!?!

Bote · Post by **Bote** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:42 am

Hiei? Are you guys nuts?!

Not one anime universe can be compared to DBZ's guys. Vegeta blows away planets and makes devastating attacks that are equal to the strenght of 1 000 000 regular people(according to Toriyama's power levels). No way any other anime character could beat him. I doubt that Hiei would even beat up Tien or Krillin, let alone Vegeta,

Mika Rieu · Post by **Mika Rieu** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:45 am

I think duo is but I'm not entirly positive. It's been a while

bazanime · Post by **bazanime** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:31 am

i guess you dont like headliners that much, eh, Ari

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:45 am

bote wrote:Not one anime universe can be compared to DBZ's guys. Vegeta blows away planets and makes devastating attacks that are equal to the strenght of 1 000 000 regular people(according to Toriyama's power levels). No way any other anime character could beat him. I doubt that Hiei would even beat up Tien or Krillin, let alone Vegeta,

Just because characters in other anime don't go around blowing up planets at random doesn't mean they aren't capable of it. And remember, Vegeta didn't blow up a single planet except when he first showed on the anime. For all his supposed increases in attack power, he didn't show anything that would make it look like he had the capability of destroying a planet. A person who didn't catch his past working for Frieza would say the same thing about Vegeta that you say about Hiei - he doesn't look strong enough to do it because I've never seen him do it. But that's not a reasonable conclusion at all, and implies that you must see something in order for it to be true - disregarding any reasonable deduction or logical hypothesis and comparisons.

Think about it this way. Goku never destroys a planet. Does that mean he (who is undoubtledly stronger than Vegeta) isn't able to destroy a planet? After all, we never saw him do it, so who's to say he has the strength to do so? We know he can because we compare his power (his visible signs of strength, his attacks) to someone who we know *can* destroy a planet - Vegeta, Frieza, Buu, Brolly, etc. If you can make that sort of assumption, there is no reason others can't make the same assumption about characters from other anime - based entirely off of comparisons.

If you say only those we've seen do something are capable of doing that thing, then Goku is weaker than Vegeta because he's never destroyed a planet. And Krilling, Tien, any of the good guys are certainly weaker by default since they've never destroyed a planet either and unless we've seen them do it, no one can say they are capable of doing it. That eliminates any comparison and overrules logical thought. In that case, there is no way DBZ could exist since a Goku who is weaker than Vegeta could never have killed those enemies who were easily capable of destroying planets - because without seeing it, it isn't true.

Now I wonder why people believe in oxygen when most have never seen it. o.O

[And no, Bazanime, I don't care much for softie headliners - I like my main characters when they have an attitude other than that of a 'softie' - Goku's way too sweet natured for me to like. ^.~ ]

Bebop0083 · Post by **Bebop0083** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:52 am

ok i think we can stop this thread now cause for these facts

1. the characters arnt real and well never fight each other
2. the writers have the decision on who wins unless via by poll
3. unless they make a vs movie like the Freddy vs Jason/Alien vs Predator movie
4. even if there is a vs movie with the two the writers still have the descion
5. you can match up their power levels all you want but that still doesnt mean any thing

now if i had all the dvds id make my crossover vid of this fight and just because of this annoying thread im going to have Hiei win just to piss Vegeta fans off.

)v(ajin Koji · Post by **)v(ajin Koji** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:57 am

Yo,

This is just for fun

- Reality.