Hiei or Vegeta

MrScribble · Post by **MrScribble** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:50 pm

Oh come on. Don't even try to explain it. Everyone knows Dragon Ball Z is one giant plot hole.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:00 pm

Heh, it *could* be genetic - but then Brolly was a lower class saiyan, a legendary 'fluke' born with powers that surpassed any of the others - and that's what let him survive space as a baby relying on his ki alone - it surrounded him and his father forming a sort of 'pocket'. In that case, it would be reasonable that the prince had that same ability - or maybe it's just that preadolescents had it. How old was Vegeta when he came to earth? After that, he doesn't do it anymore - and Brolly is an exception anyway, so it's understandable that he would differ and retain that as he gets older (which is why he was willing to destroy the planet since only he would survive in space - btw, that's how I know Vegeta could no longer survive in space - he had to be shipped off Namek via a wish, and off the planet in the Brolly movie via a spaceship).

But I do like to think that it might be genetic - and maybe Goku didn't know Vegeta had that talent, so that would explain why he wished him off Namek (thinking he'd die if the planet exploded) and why he thought they would all die if the planet in the Brolly movie exploded - he just plain didn't know enough about saiyans to know better.

But it wouldn't explain Brolly's father. He said flat out that Vegeta would die when the planet exploded - that was the entire reason he brought him and his son to that planet - because he knew Vegeta couldn't survive in space (if he could then he could have just flown off once the meteor got close). And as a former advisor to the king, he would know if there were some latent genetic trait that allowed the royal bloodline to survive in space.

No, it's either a plothole, an air pocket, or a trait belonging only to teenage and younger saiyans - something you'd lose with age unless you're a genetic mutation like Brolly who defies all the 'rules.' ^_^;;

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:02 pm

Ack! I completely forgot the Android saga again. ^_^;;

Vegeta can't survive in space without a spaceship. He says it himself when he explains how he turned super saiyan. His ship was about to be destroyed and he knew he'd die without it since he can't survive in space. By his own mouth, he no longer had that ability (if he ever did). I should have remembered, but it's been a while since I watched that saga.

Bebop0083 · Post by **Bebop0083** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:03 pm

i thought this was a thread on Hiei vs Vegeta not proving a dbz series plothole.

)v(ajin Koji · Post by **)v(ajin Koji** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:04 pm

Or MAYBE it's a DBZ movie which usually makes no sense when you try to tag it along with the original series plot

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:06 pm

)v(ajin Koji wrote:Or MAYBE it's a DBZ movie which usually makes no sense when you try to tag it along with the original series plot

Doesn't matter now - Vegeta says he can't survive in space during the Anderoid saga, so the movie doesn't really make a difference. ^_^;

[And to Bebop - getting around plot-holes in dbz is necessary in order to have a set of 'facts' you can use in comparing Vegeta to Hiei - you have to take the anime into account in order to 'understand' the characters.]

)v(ajin Koji · Post by **)v(ajin Koji** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:13 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:
)v(ajin Koji wrote:Or MAYBE it's a DBZ movie which usually makes no sense when you try to tag it along with the original series plot
Doesn't matter now - Vegeta says he can't survive in space during the Anderoid saga, so the movie doesn't really make a difference. ^_^;

Aww, crap. Oh well, this does give an opportunity for Vegeta to bea Hiei though - IF IF IF he uses that shield mentioned earlier, because Hiei wouldn't beable to use the fire in space because of a lack of oxygen.

Oh, God I just don't care anymore.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 5:28 pm

)v(ajin Koji wrote:Aww, crap. Oh well, this does give an opportunity for Vegeta to bea Hiei though - IF IF IF he uses that shield mentioned earlier, because Hiei wouldn't beable to use the fire in space because of a lack of oxygen.

Ah, but remember, Hiei doesn't need oxygen around him to use his fire - he 'imports' it or 'summons' it from the Makai - hence the pillars of black when he summons the dragon - the oxygen necessary to use it is drawn with the flame (the reason it's black is that it burns off the Makai atmosphere - so it *must* take that mix with it if it stays black once it reaches the human world), and once it reaches Hiei, it feeds off him (his youki). Plus! Even if the flame did die out in space (after eating all his youki) - it only takes one hit to burst Vegeta's shield - and then we're right back to whether or not Vegeta is resistant to 'black' flame when it comes mixed with youki and in the shape of a giant dragon. ;p

Oh, God I just don't care anymore.

But it's just getting fun...

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:22 am

Arigatomyna wrote:
Oh, God I just don't care anymore.
But it's just getting fun...

x2
few times has dbz ever been taken this seriously and really analyzed, all it took was a seemingly useless 'vs' thread

no offense thread creator

now back to vegeta's space breathing 'techinique', i don't think Goku wished Vegeta off of the planet because he was afraid that Vegeta would suffocat, i think it was more due to the fact that planet Namek was about to explode, and the explosion would kill him.. and then yes, if by some miracle the explosion didn't kill Vegeta, he'd die without Namek's atmostphere

the same should go for the 1st Brolly movie, Vegeta was led to that specific planet, not because it was simply gonna disappear, but because that planet was gonna be obliterated by that meteor, that is what Paragus (brolly's dad) was planning for Brolly too since Paragus had lost his control over his weapon, but Brolly made it clear that a planet exploding would not kill him

speaking of this brolly movie (movie 8 for less typing purposes), when Paragus is remembering Broly's youth, it shows Broly destroying cities and possibly planets from up in space... was he destroying planets from space (meaning by toriyama's logic-evil=don't need to breathe in space) or was Broly destroying cities from within the planet's atmosphere?

also, in dbz, evil people also have the ability to shoot beams out of their mouths, good guys use their hands and/or stomachs/bodies (goku in Cooler's Revenge)

)v(ajin Koji · Post by **)v(ajin Koji** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:58 am

Daio Kaji wrote:also, in dbz, evil people also have the ability to shoot beams out of their mouths, good guys use their hands and/or stomachs/bodies (goku in Cooler's Revenge)

That's because good guys think it's more honorable to use hands etc, e.g. Piccolo uses eye beams at the beginning of DBZ but never again...