How are AMV's legal?

[billy_wires]

Most companies actually encourage them. AD even got paid to make a Noir one.

That WHORE!!

ya know, its funny how by creating an amv we're technicaly doing something illegal but we still have ownership of the edits. anyone ever thought of sueing one of thoughs shitheads that copy peoples vids ?

Even if it were possible, you would have a hard-ass time trying to defend the reason you broke copyright, and are seeking reparations for someone stealing the intelectual property you created by using someone else's intelectual property without their direct consent. If that makes any sense.

[koronoru]

ya know, its funny how by creating an amv we're technicaly doing something illegal but we still have ownership of the edits.

Actually, we don't. The Berne Convention is pretty clear that copyright on infringing derivative works reverts to the holders of copyright on the original material - so that, for instance, the music industry holds the copyrights on bootleg recordings and can freely publish any bootlegs they lay hands on, without owing royalties to the fans who made the bootlegs. AMVs, of course, haven't been tested in court, but it sure looks like they would be treated similarly. On the other hand, it might end up being considered as more like "sampling", where there's still a new copyright created on the original contribution (the sequencing or whatever). Unfortunately, then the AMV would probably just become poison - nobody allowed to use it because there are copyright claims on it from two different parties who can't agree.

In the AMV community we afford each other various courtesies, such as not copying each other's editing work, but it's pushing it to say that failing to observe the courtesies is "illegal", because the whole affair is already illegal anyway.

[Saber Rider]

If you rip Music and Pictures from CD, DVD and Video, you are doing nothing illegal if you don't bypass a copy protection (kind of strange defects that are found on the new ugly "not-really-a-CD"s, Macrovision, CSS). Not every DVD is CSS-Protected, many VHS-Videos don't contain Macrovision.

If you cut this together to an AMV you are doing nothing illegal, too.

If you pass them on it depends on how you pass them on and in which country you live. We in Germany have a right of a "private copy". If I pass on a single copy of an AMV to a friend or give him an AMV DVD as a birthday present, it's allright and nothing illegal. But if I sell AMV DVDs commercially, that is for money (the "Music-Industry-Lawyers" say if I let pay my friends the DVD-R Disc is already for money, the "Private-Person-Lawyers" say my friends can pay me the DVD-R Disc but I should not take more), or upload it in Kazaa or somewhere in Web, it is illegal.

So I won't upload any of my AMVs but only show them on private parties, on Conventions who have paid fees to the GEMA (the organisation who collects fees for playing music and video in public in Germany) or pass them on to a few good friends.

Nevertheless, I think, the Anime producers don't care anything about AMVs. The picture material is cut into a completely new sense, transitions, filters or insertions make the material completely unsusable for pirating the Anime. I think they see the crazy fans doing a lot of hard work to create these little impressive pieces of work which is excellent advertising for the Anime which makes it more popular. I think, also the music industry is not caring about AMVs because they are quite big. It takes few minutes and less to download a MP3 of a song. But it takes about a quarter hour and more, even with the modern highspeed broadband internet, to download the same song es AMV. Also, MP3 covers a varity of millions and billions of songs, but AMVs only a few thousands. But I think if they sued away most MP3s, they will care about AMVs as a new source for illegal songs and begin to sue them away. Consider: AMVs are bad as the pirate music. Everything is bad in the eyes of the music industry. If you buy a CD you are bad because you could pirate this CD so they "copy protect" (damage) the CD (sorry for exaggerating, but this is the situation in Germany).

But with a little luck, there are also legal ways to broadcast MP3s via Internet: I'm just creating one (only having the problem that I need scenes from some episodes of the series, which are still not released on DVD - but they will come soon) but already contacted the band (a famous German band) who made the song for the AMV. They say I just should take my time and make good work and send them a copy of the AMV. If they like it and the copyright owner of the Anime won't mind, they will put it as a streaming video on their homepage. I will tell you the name of the band and the name of the anime if they will take it and the copyright owner of the anime has given it's okay - sorry, but I want to prevent "give your okay" mails to the copyright owner or to the band, this could take negative effects on the complete process. But if you find a "progressive" (in sense of "not afraid of new media") Band and a friendly Anime Producer and if you ask friendly, it could be, that your video is soon completely legal on web.

[bum]

wheather amv's are legal, illegal, or whatever hel hell els, the RIAA is gona be up to its armpits fighting p2p software for the next few years, and amv'ers are never gona stop until the fbi blows thier front door open and shouts "PUT THE MOUSE DOWN" as you r abuot to put your finishing touches on that latest masterpiece

[Declan_Vee]

I've been doing an awful lot of reading into this. And I've come to some kind of a conclusion... Ultimately it all comes down to what your country's definition of "fair use" is, how different the final product is, and what is then done with it.

If you've got the source on legally purchased DVD/VHS/CD. Done an ample amount of editing and don't distribute for profit or at all. You're fine.

Of course this all could be just a whole lot of tripe.

[Rorschach]

Oh, it's nice and warm and fuzzy and all to get a pat on the head from a corporate entity, but it doesn't change the fact that there exist higher authorities than the corporations. The RIAA is one that comes to mind. Corporations have to answer to these authorities. If RIAA dictates "NO DERIVATIVE WORKS FOR YOU", I am willing to bet that there will be few to zero corporations with any significant power standing on our side.

A good point, but I should probably point out that although the corporations might have to drop an AMV from the DVD after all (or pay the singer royalties, as they presumably were already doing anyway), they are under no obligation to serve as the RIAA's police force. So, even if they couldn't give us any open support, they don't have to help the RIAA crack down on us either. (Again, they don't even have to acknowledge our contribution to a given AMV's existence. They could always claim they made it all up themselves; for that matter, if they're picking up the tab for the royalties, then in the eyes of the law, they did create it themselves!) What would be evil would be if they then sicced the RIAA on the original AMV maker.

I don't deny that corporations can be very EEEVIL (Enron comes to mind). I'm just pointing out that the authorities above them have much more motivation to hurt us, and can do far more damage. That's why I prefer dealing with any corporation over dealing with, say, the RIAA or the government. If anyone draws the government's attention, there's going to be Hell to pay.

[koronoru]

A good point, but I should probably point out that although the corporations might have to drop an AMV from the DVD after all (or pay the singer royalties, as they presumably were already doing anyway), they are under no obligation to serve as the RIAA's police force. So, even if they couldn't give us any open support, they don't have to help the RIAA crack down on us either.

The music industry is a lot bigger than the anime industry. You're expecting the big kid on the playground to defend you from a bullying teacher.

[XenoDrake]

ya know, we can sit here and guess at what the big bad IRAA and other companies really thing about this all day long. but who is going to actualy ask them?

untill that happens, i simply refuse to argue the point, cuz the only thing i see is no one knows anything about it, but everyone loves to guess.


~XenoDrake

[trythil]

ya know, we can sit here and guess at what the big bad IRAA and other companies really thing about this all day long. but who is going to actualy ask them?

untill that happens, i simply refuse to argue the point, cuz the only thing i see is no one knows anything about it, but everyone loves to guess.


~XenoDrake

Given the RIAA's stance on mere unauthorized copying -- never mind the fact that we're making unauthorized derivations and reinterpretations of the work that their supposed clients generate -- I can't see how any sort of direct dialogue with the RIAA could ever be beneficial.

The RIAA cares not for creativity. They adhere to the law as tightly as an interpreter clings to a parse tree. If anything is out of whack, they will take exception.

The difference is that most interpreters don't have a slew of bully-lawyers to beat the crap out of you when things don't go their way.

[Calim]

IF they plan on making AMVs illegal they'd be stupid...I mean alone from watching some AMVs such as the Paper Bubbles Remaster I want to buy the DVDs to the anime that was on there and watch it. AMVs are more like advertisements for there anime.

With the RIAA they always have a dildo up there asses. Excuse my extreme language but suing a grandparent and an 11 year old is just not right in that circumstance.