Sasuke and Naruto?

foxfire14 · Post by **foxfire14** » Tue May 04, 2004 10:19 pm

Seki The Ifrit wrote:Sasuke is by far the best character. unlike naruto, sasuke is a much deeper character who knows true pain. While naruto only has his little nobody likes me problem, and he has no parents. Sasuke has felt true pain and sarrow, and experienced true loss. On top of all that i like sasuke's character better, and think naruto's a common almost infintely powerful moron

Sasuke also has to try harder than naruto so he's forced to rely more on hs intelligence than naruto. Sasuke unlike naruto can run out of chakra and stamina cuz he doesn't have a near infinite source to draw on. Sasuke's also willing to die, and if necessary betray his friends to achieve his true goal of revenge. Thats dedication.

Come on did you even pay attention to the begining of the series?
Naruto is not only alone alone but shunned by the adults in the village.
To grow up around that must be painful. I can't believe you would say something like that. Everyone in the village (with few exceptions) give him dirty looks and talk behind his back like he's scum. He knows they are doing it too. Don't tell me he hasn't felt pain.
Saske just handles his pain differently. He shuts everyone out and hates the world. He has a big grudge that he needs to get over which I understand.
hugs to all and to all a good night

Seki The Ifrit · Post by **Seki The Ifrit** » Tue May 04, 2004 11:06 pm

foxfire14 wrote: Come on did you even pay attention to the begining of the series?
Naruto is not only alone alone but shunned by the adults in the village.
To grow up around that must be painful. I can't believe you would say something like that. Everyone in the village (with few exceptions) give him dirty looks and talk behind his back like he's scum. He knows they are doing it too. Don't tell me he hasn't felt pain.
Saske just handles his pain differently. He shuts everyone out and hates the world. He has a big grudge that he needs to get over which I understand.
hugs to all and to all a good night

Yes i did, probably more so than you. I also have probably gotten farther than you in the series too. I'm also guessing you haven't read all my other posts yet seeing as how that was on like the first page.

Your comparing the 2 pans as if they were the same in any way. Naruto's pain is rooted in isolation and self esteem issues which makes him cry out for any form of attention he can get. His pain can be easily relieved with no more than a kind word and one person to acknowldge him. He go hat and became the person he is today. He even said if things had kept up like they were he would've ended up like gaara, cuz according to him they are the same.

Now lets look at sasuke's pain. Sasuke's pain is not rooted in anything as simple as isolation, its rooted in fear, anger, shame, and betrayal. Sasuke was not forced into isolation he chose it for many reasons. He lacks the ability to trust since his brother, the person he trusted most, stole everything he ever had. His fear and shame kind of go hand in hand. He feels an unimaginable amount of shame cuz he blames himself for his clans death. He feels his lack of power is what caused their death and feels even more ashamed ever time he thinks that he'll never be strong enough. Lastly there is obviously the anger. Naturally he's mad at itachi for killing his family and at himself for being able to nothing about it. Then just as a final screw you itachi forced him to experience his own death at a young age just to mentally warp him.

How can you cure that form of pain. Its not like naruto where the answer is quite simple, give him what he wants. What if what he wanted could not be given to him. Sasuke has nothing that can heal pain or mend his heart, all he has is a reason to keep going. Nothing can replace the life of a loved one, or the ability to trust. All he can do is focus on one goal and pursue it with all his heart, or else he would have nothing but emptiness.

The problem is most people don't examine the true depth of sasuke's pain. You try to qauntify it and relate it to your own pain but thats nearly impossible. There are a rare few who are forced to suffer such a fate, but naruto's pain can be easily related to. Everyone knows the pain of being insulted and not liked, they also can easily relate to being isolated. You see naruto and say he has it 10 times worse than i ever had it, and you can't see pain greater than that. Imagine everyday blaming yourself for the death of your parents, but i doubt most could even imagine that kind of pain. For most it may be a little to deep.

MajinCanty · Post by **MajinCanty** » Tue May 04, 2004 11:13 pm

I say for right now it's Naruto. That's because of his determination. He simply refuses to anyone tell him otherwise. He overcame so much adversity so far, how can he lose now. Also, Naruto's goal is somewhat more honorable than Sasuke's goal. If Sasuke can let go of his current goal, than it would be a toss-up

"Stank You Very Much"

Calim · Post by **Calim** » Wed May 05, 2004 12:07 am

umm...i am on topic. The topic being naruto and sasuke, and my post being about naruto and sasuke. I've stated who i like and why, then proceeded to defend it when an ass started to argue.

I wasn't talking about you O_o "The rest of you" meant the others, not you...there going all Fooly Cooly and crud and the topic might get closed so I told em to shut it ;D

If you read the spoiler section you would have seen i cited several different instances in the manga that show several of your claims are false. Also i may have overstated how spoiling the spoilers are, only have a few things in there. Also for naruto there has been no changes to the anime that would come close to beng called major.

I read the spoiler section but it doesn't prove I'm wrong and your right I haven't seen it happen yet so I will just wait till then to argue with you some more because obviously you have an advantage over me seeing as you read the manga and I don't *shrug*

Naruto Rocks Sasuke, end of story for me. No longer arguing (I'll be reading the rest of the posts though ;D

Seki The Ifrit · Post by **Seki The Ifrit** » Wed May 05, 2004 12:09 am

Calim wrote: I wasn't talking about you O_o "The rest of you" meant the others, not you...there going all Fooly Cooly and crud and the topic might get closed so I told em to shut it ;D

Oh, in that case i apologize for the bite me comment.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed May 05, 2004 3:11 pm

um.. Seki the Ifrit, you put a lot of dedication and thought into ur posts, but aren't you being a bit oversimplistic when you examine Naruto's past and his own experiences?

when you talked about Naruto, you said his only pains were isolation and self-esteem issues and you called them simple, but when you described Sasuke's pain, you used a lot more terms. for Sasuke, you said he had experienced Fear, Anger, Shame, and Betrayal. but anyone could just turn right around and say that Sasuke has a simple issue of betrayal, everything after that is only a consequence of that Betrayal

i bet if you tried hard enough, you could just as effectively argue Naruto's side. you could say, as the great saying goes "It's better to have loved and lost, then never loved at all" (or sumtin like that) even though Sasuke did in fact lose his family/clan, he had them to begin with and will have their memories with him forever.

Naruto on the other hand has never had a family unitl recently, he has been living within the cold walls of his own heart since as long as he can remember. like the 3rd Hokage said, there are so many people around Naruto that would deny him even the right to exist! so Although Sasuke may himself feel the anger, the shame, the frustration of not being strong enough. how can that compare to the anger, the shame, and the frustration that is felt towards Naruto by all the villagers.

the anger felt towards Naruto because of not who he is, but what's inside of him, the anger that Naruto feels towards these people that deny him happiness or even acceptance

the fear felt towards Naruto because of what he might become if the seal were to break, the fear that Naruto feels because of what might never happen, he used to fear that no one would ever accept him, but he's actually gotten over this

the frustration felt towards Naruto by the villagers that can't understand why they have to live with Naruto, and the frustration felt by Naruto towards why he is treated with such animosity (sp?)

so even though Sasuke has gone through a lot of pain brought forth upon him by his own blood relative, you also can't downplay Naruto's pain that was caused by his own village, the place that should be considered him home and his haven from the world outside.

Both are great characters, Naruto is a great series, but i'd still pick Naruto over Sasuke because Naruto has already grown up and gotten over his fears with the help of people close to him, he seems more grown up to me, Sasuke may be more serious, but it's his bitterness that makes him so serious, not his maturity.... plus i like Ramen

Yorea Ryong wrote:i think anybody with a demon lurking in side of him is just freakin awesome. like vampire hunter d.

wth??!! who said D had a demon inside of him??!!

or do you mean the parasite on his hand maybe?

Nandez · Post by **Nandez** » Wed May 05, 2004 3:40 pm

I agree with Seki The Ifrit.Sasuke All Da Fucking Way!!

Seki The Ifrit · Post by **Seki The Ifrit** » Wed May 05, 2004 5:33 pm

Holy hell daio kaji i didn't even think anyone was reading my posts. For the most part i agree with you, in fact i was thinking right after i submitted the post that i may have downplayed naruto's pain, but you can't edit and i don't like to double post so.......

Although i would like to adress a few issues. What i meant by naruto's pain being "simple" didn't imply that it wasn't great in and of itself but it more referred to the ease at which it could be solved. It only took the kindness of one person to pull naruto out of his own personal hell, but at the end of the day it was a hell none the less. His pain was great, not as great as sasuke's in my opinion, but it was easily solved. Sasuke's pain is more "complex" cuz there is no clear cut way to save him from his personal hell. The only thing that may work is to make him him see that there are things/people more important to him than revenge. This was close to happening before the whole itachi/naruto thing.

Also the whole its better to loved and lost than to never have loved before saying seems to apply pretty well here. The meaning behind that saying is would a person give up ever having loved to avoid the pain of losing it cuz the pain of the loss is too great. Of course it does hold true, i doubt sasuke would give up ever having a family just to erase his pain cuz his memories are all he has left. Naruto may actually have it worse off but he definitely didn't have to feel the immense pain that sasuke did. Also this may be a simplified example but who's suffered more a rich man that loses his life savings, lively hood and respect, or a poor man who's never known what its like to be rich. This is very simplified but i'm trying to get across that you have to lose something to feel true loss which is the greatest pain.

And come on, he was like eight and saw his parents butchered, and then was forced to live his own death repeatedly. That shit will fuck you up. This last paragraph may not be as eliquently put but it still holds true.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Wed May 05, 2004 6:28 pm

seki, i definately see what you're saying now, that was a good example though, and it's true, that famous quote i gave really is great, but like everything else in life, it's relative, that 'better to have loved...' stuff is specific to exactly love, it doesn't hold true in every situation

i hope no one would say that they'd rather have had cancer and lived then to never have had cancer before, i'm sure most normal people would rather not have cancer at all

when you said Naruto's pain was simple, yeh, i was thinking that you meant it to be mediocre, but know i see what you're saying, and i definately agree, what naruto went through was something that should never have gotten so big because all it took was 1 person to acknowledge him and life is gravy 8)

but Sasuke's emotional/mental scars on the other hand are not simple to solve, he's got a lot of stuff going on in his head that he needs to sort out, in the end, when everything is over, Sasuke has had the worst page, Naruto has emptiness, but Sasuke has loss, so yeah, it's a lot more complex to solve that problem, so i'd agree with you that Sasuke has experienced the most/worst pain in his life because he has lost so many years already just because revenge has been all he has focused on, Naruto has had an easier life (easier, not easy) because he has been able to have some fun along the way

but just remember, this isn't a contest to see who's experienced the most pain, it's a favorite character contest, so it's perfectly fine that we don't convince each other to choose the other character, you may like Sasuke better because he has a bigger emotional hurdle to get over, and his character's strength is what will pull him through, but i like Naruto better because of his dedication to 'do the right thing' and sheer will power always prevail to help him save those close to him... and i like Ramen

Lyrs · Post by **Lyrs** » Wed May 05, 2004 8:19 pm

A hard decision, but i don't think Naruto can bring himself to kill a friend. He can certainly defeat anyone if he works at it.