neon genissis

)v(ajin Koji · Post by **)v(ajin Koji** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:36 am

I like your Andy Warhol-ish avatar.

I've wanted to say that for days.

Oh and I think you're right about NGE, blah blah

MDWigs · Post by **MDWigs** » Sun May 23, 2004 2:12 pm

Scintilla wrote:I always thought that was the difference between the two, that Shinji rejects Instrumentality in the movie but accepts it in the TV ending.

In my opinion the scene in episode 26 just after the parody scene is the most significant evidence for Shinji's rejection of Complementation in the series ending.

SHINJI: ...I see. So this is another possibility. Another possible reality! This current 'myself' is the same way! It's not the true 'myself'! I can be any way I wish to be! I see! And 'myself' who is not an EVA pilot can exist as well!
MISATO: If you take that into consideration, then perhaps the real world isn't that bad. (Sou omoeba, kono genjitsu-sekai mo kesshite warui-monja naiwa)
SHINJI: Still... The real world itself might not be bad, but I could still hate myself. (genjitu-sekai wa, waruku-nai kamo shire-nai, demo jibun wa kiraida)

Just to note "genjitsu" = real and "sekai" = world so "genjitsu-sekai" means "real-word".

Here after "experiencing" the parody world, Shinji realises that life has many possibilities, and that Shinji as a person can exist even if he isn't an Eva pilot, and thus, as Miasto points out to him, the real world, genjitu-sekai, reality, isn't so bad after all. Shinji eventually realises that his life has value, and thus decides to continue to exist (ie reject to "nothingness" of Complementation) and return to reality.

We don't get to see it in real terms (only a symbolic congratulations scene reminicent of the ending of Ideon) but that's what I believe happened.

HeartbreakerByZep · Post by **HeartbreakerByZep** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:11 pm

MDWigs wrote:
Scintilla wrote:I always thought that was the difference between the two, that Shinji rejects Instrumentality in the movie but accepts it in the TV ending.
In my opinion the scene in episode 26 just after the parody scene is the most significant evidence for Shinji's rejection of Complementation in the series ending.

SHINJI: ...I see. So this is another possibility. Another possible reality! This current 'myself' is the same way! It's not the true 'myself'! I can be any way I wish to be! I see! And 'myself' who is not an EVA pilot can exist as well!
MISATO: If you take that into consideration, then perhaps the real world isn't that bad. (Sou omoeba, kono genjitsu-sekai mo kesshite warui-monja naiwa)
SHINJI: Still... The real world itself might not be bad, but I could still hate myself. (genjitu-sekai wa, waruku-nai kamo shire-nai, demo jibun wa kiraida)
Just to note "genjitsu" = real and "sekai" = world so "genjitsu-sekai" means "real-word".

Here after "experiencing" the parody world, Shinji realises that life has many possibilities, and that Shinji as a person can exist even if he isn't an Eva pilot, and thus, as Miasto points out to him, the real world, genjitu-sekai, reality, isn't so bad after all. Shinji eventually realises that his life has value, and thus decides to continue to exist (ie reject to "nothingness" of Complementation) and return to reality.

We don't get to see it in real terms (only a symbolic congratulations scene reminicent of the ending of Ideon) but that's what I believe happened.

You are definetly right about the TV ending, MDWigs.

Hikari88 · Post by **Hikari88** » Sun May 23, 2004 5:58 pm

ryuu_hime13 wrote:
Initial reaction: WHAT THE FUCK?!

i watched all of it and my reaction is still WTF?! O.O

I dont get it, i mean it was good, but not that good =/

azulmagia · Post by **azulmagia** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:07 pm

I've started watching it now that I've got the first DVD and I must say it's pretty damn good. Misato is really hot

. I apologise for stating the bleedin' obvious but I can't help noticing its resemblance to RahXephon. NGE is almost like something directed by Stanley Kubrick....

Cyanna · Post by **Cyanna** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:05 pm

MDWigs wrote:
Scintilla wrote:I always thought that was the difference between the two, that Shinji rejects Instrumentality in the movie but accepts it in the TV ending.
In my opinion the scene in episode 26 just after the parody scene is the most significant evidence for Shinji's rejection of Complementation in the series ending.

SHINJI: ...I see. So this is another possibility. Another possible reality! This current 'myself' is the same way! It's not the true 'myself'! I can be any way I wish to be! I see! And 'myself' who is not an EVA pilot can exist as well!
MISATO: If you take that into consideration, then perhaps the real world isn't that bad. (Sou omoeba, kono genjitsu-sekai mo kesshite warui-monja naiwa)
SHINJI: Still... The real world itself might not be bad, but I could still hate myself. (genjitu-sekai wa, waruku-nai kamo shire-nai, demo jibun wa kiraida)
Just to note "genjitsu" = real and "sekai" = world so "genjitsu-sekai" means "real-word".

Here after "experiencing" the parody world, Shinji realises that life has many possibilities, and that Shinji as a person can exist even if he isn't an Eva pilot, and thus, as Miasto points out to him, the real world, genjitu-sekai, reality, isn't so bad after all. Shinji eventually realises that his life has value, and thus decides to continue to exist (ie reject to "nothingness" of Complementation) and return to reality.

We don't get to see it in real terms (only a symbolic congratulations scene reminicent of the ending of Ideon) but that's what I believe happened.

I thought the alternate reality was an example of "Shinji's perfect world" were he can be happy. He has parents, friends, a good lookin' teacher....hormones... And Shinji learns that he can make himself out to be whoever he wants to be and create his own destiny. And not be afraid of people.

In the series, he ends with this happy idealistic view. But what he really doesn't think too much about is that yes you can control youself...but you can't control others. Because of that, your life will never be your idea of perfect no matter how hard you try. If he returns to the "real life," Rei is still a clone, Gendo is still a bastard, his mother is still dead and Asuka still hates his guts.

He accepts this idealistic view and thinks he'll be happy because of it. But that very well may not be the case. In End of Eva he accepts the harsh reality of a cold world where he is utterly alone except for his biggest rival.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:36 am

Cyanna wrote:I thought the alternate reality was an example of "Shinji's perfect world" were he can be happy. He has parents, friends, a good lookin' teacher....hormones... And Shinji learns that he can make himself out to be whoever he wants to be and create his own destiny. And not be afraid of people.

In the series, he ends with this happy idealistic view. But what he really doesn't think too much about is that yes you can control youself...but you can't control others. Because of that, your life will never be your idea of perfect no matter how hard you try. If he returns to the "real life," Rei is still a clone, Gendo is still a bastard, his mother is still dead and Asuka still hates his guts.

He accepts this idealistic view and thinks he'll be happy because of it. But that very well may not be the case. In End of Eva he accepts the harsh reality of a cold world where he is utterly alone except for his biggest rival.

yup.. he does return to the cold cruel world... but that was his choice, and it was a conscious choice at that, kaoru and rei both warned him that if the walls of people's hearts seperate them again, then they will feel pain and sorrow again.. and shinji says 'okay then' or sumtin like that, so it's okay that the world is still cruel... it's better than a fake togetherness that complementation would have brung

but no.. i don't think that the 'parody reality' was shinji's ideal reality, although it COULD be, for the purpose of the show, it wasn't, it was just an example of an alternate reality that proves that shinji the non-pilot can exist

but if you think about it.. gendo might not still be a bastard... asuke might not still be a cold bitch... and rei... okay, she'd still be a clone, but that's not a character flaw or anything, but what i'm saying is, after instrumentality, the tv show ends, but EoE goes a bit further from that, so if u consider EoE, then Civilization as we know it is over, so Gendo wouldn't have his position, he'd probably wander eventually killing himself to return with Yui, and Asuka has warmed up to shinji, she just showed tough-love before, so she might show sum compassion towards shinji like with that stroke she does at the end of EoE

MDWigs · Post by **MDWigs** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:26 am

azulmagia:

I apologise for stating the bleedin' obvious but I can't help noticing its resemblance to RahXephon.

You mean it the other way round right? Eva came before RahXephon.

Cyanna:

I thought the alternate reality was an example of "Shinji's perfect world" were he can be happy. He has parents, friends, a good lookin' teacher....hormones... And Shinji learns that he can make himself out to be whoever he wants to be and create his own destiny. And not be afraid of people.

It's "another possibility. Another possible reality." and what he learns from it is that "The real world itself might not be bad".

In the series, he ends with this happy idealistic view. But what he really doesn't think too much about is that yes you can control youself...but you can't control others. Because of that, your life will never be your idea of perfect no matter how hard you try. If he returns to the "real life," Rei is still a clone, Gendo is still a bastard, his mother is still dead and Asuka still hates his guts.

He accepts this idealistic view and thinks he'll be happy because of it. But that very well may not be the case. In End of Eva he accepts the harsh reality of a cold world where he is utterly alone except for his biggest rival.

I don't think he accepts that view, becuase as was established earlier in the episode, to live in a world where there are no differences between yourself and other people (ergo to live in the world of Complementation) is the same as not living at all. If there are no differences between yourself and other people, you are effectively the same as everyone else, you lose your individuality and thus cease to exist. Shinji realises this in episode 26. He is shown a world of "perfect freedom" and eventually comes to understand what Complementation really means (ceasing to exist as an individual person). Initually Shinji is alright with that, becuase he doesn't see any value in himself, so doesn't care if he ceases to exist. However over the rest of the episode he comes to realise that he has self-worth, that his life is worth living, and thus he wants to continue to exist. To continue existing means rejecting Complementation, and that's exactly what I think he does in the end.

The same process plays itself out in EoE (I believe the two are very closely linked). Shinji initially wishes for a world without differences, but then realises that this world would resulting in him ceasing to exist as an individual, he realises his life is worth living, and he wants to see everyone again, and thus he rejects Complementation.

Daio Kaji · Post by **Daio Kaji** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:38 am

MDWigs wrote:Cyanna:

In the series, he ends with this happy idealistic view. But what he really doesn't think too much about is that yes you can control youself...but you can't control others. Because of that, your life will never be your idea of perfect no matter how hard you try. If he returns to the "real life," Rei is still a clone, Gendo is still a bastard, his mother is still dead and Asuka still hates his guts.

He accepts this idealistic view and thinks he'll be happy because of it. But that very well may not be the case. In End of Eva he accepts the harsh reality of a cold world where he is utterly alone except for his biggest rival.

I don't think he accepts that view, becuase as was established earlier in the episode, to live in a world where there are no differences between yourself and other people (ergo to live in the world of Complementation) is the same as not living at all. If there are no differences between yourself and other people, you are effectively the same as everyone else, you lose your individuality and thus cease to exist. Shinji realises this in episode 26. He is shown a world of "perfect freedom" and eventually comes to understand what Complementation really means (ceasing to exist as an individual person). Initually Shinji is alright with that, becuase he doesn't see any value in himself, so doesn't care if he ceases to exist. However over the rest of the episode he comes to realise that he has self-worth, that his life is worth living, and thus he wants to continue to exist. To continue existing means rejecting Complementation, and that's exactly what I think he does in the end.

The same process plays itself out in EoE (I believe the two are very closely linked). Shinji initially wishes for a world without differences, but then realises that this world would resulting in him ceasing to exist as an individual, he realises his life is worth living, and he wants to see everyone again, and thus he rejects Complementation.

i think u may have misunderstood Cyanna... or i did

when she said that shinji accepts that idealistic view i don't think she meant that shinji accepts complementation.. because obviously he rejects them in both endings, i think Cyanna was saying that shinji accepted the idealisic view that he can be whoever he wants to be and that he can ultimately be happy... because of course like

Cyanna wrote:yes you can control youself...but you can't control others. Because of that, your life will never be your idea of perfect no matter how hard you try.

so there will be pain, but i don't think Cyanna thinks that shinji realizes that that fact, that shinji might believe he will now live a happy life in the real world... not that he accepted complementation

but i still disagree, i think he does realize that there will be pain, people will still fight and hate, but he accepts that reality, because there is always a chance to find your happiness, just like Shinji decides he will do in the end of the series/movie, he doesn't decide that he's happy, he decides that his life is worth living in order to find that happiness within the real world

omniinuyasha85 · Post by **omniinuyasha85** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:35 pm

you only have to come to terms with yourself cuz thats all you can do. besides, who wants to control everything anyway? life would be too boring and predictable. i happen to like the anime ending just fine cuz of all the psychological stuff. i only watched it once...nothing too monumental but it does cover a lot of bases: funny, action, drama, dark violence. definitely above average but i don't see it living up to it's hype and fame.

everyone else would probably disagree but im saying this from experience: if you think the anime itself is too dark, stop the anime and watch EoE. yes, it's an alternate ending but i think it can stand on its own just fine. after seeing the bleakness...i went back to the anime and by contrast, i can tolerate the dark themes much better. thats just me though.