What's wrong with using Windows Movie Maker 2?

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Gepetto
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Post by Gepetto » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:10 pm

Adv1sor wrote:Can someone tell me what, for example, Adobe does that MM2 doesn’t do?
Not only does it allow multiple audio and video tracks (that means transparency), it has much more precision, is more customizable and has a truckload of effects and transitions. Also, it exports AVI files, not WMV. That's basically it, without going into details.
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Post by jasper-isis » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:36 pm

I have actually been really impressed with some of the WMM videos I've seen. I might give it a shot for my next amv. But that probably wouldn't happen because I like to edit with avs scripts, and there is no avs plugin for WMM. (Right?)

And can't WMM export AVI uncompressed?
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Post by The end » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:52 pm

Jasper-Isis wrote:I have actually been really impressed with some of the WMM videos I've seen. I might give it a shot for my next amv. But that probably wouldn't happen because I like to edit with avs scripts, and there is no avs plugin for WMM. (Right?)

And can't WMM export AVI uncompressed?
No. The closest thing it can export in is DV.

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Post by Gepetto » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:02 pm

Jasper-Isis wrote:But that probably wouldn't happen because I like to edit with avs scripts, and there is no avs plugin for WMM. (Right?)
Unfortunately, you're right.
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Post by Arigatomina » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:23 pm

gepetto wrote:
Jasper-Isis wrote:But that probably wouldn't happen because I like to edit with avs scripts, and there is no avs plugin for WMM. (Right?)
Unfortunately, you're right.
Someone here (I think it was Scintilla) mentioned a way to sort of...jury-rig wmm to accept avs files so you can edit directly the way you would in Premere, but it sounds *very* unstable. You'd need a fast, clean, computer to edit footage that way. If you edit with huffyuv you get no worse 'starting' quality than most people using the $600 programs.

The only real problem with quality would be the end result - Virtualdub with a quick 'directshow filter' and you'd be set to convert to huffyuv without quality loss (leaving you to pick your distribution xvid/mpg/etc). It's just an extra step. Toss in a nice little filter or two and the quality is no different from any other program. Of course, most people using Premiere tend to put out 90mb xvid files, so naturally if your bitrate is lower the final video won't be as spiffy. I find most wmm-converted files are smaller, while the wmvs are as bad (big) as the pro vids. Your choice of poison and all that.

[As to the thread topic in general - wmm is limiting. There are lots (lots and lots) of quick ways around the basic limitations. VirtualDub - layers, frame-by-frame accuracy, and fun filters that when used with creativity can be prettier than the packaged effects used in typical vids. PhotoImpression (Arcsoft) comes free with Windows XP (along with wmm) and is as good as any Adobe PaintshopPro program without the cost - nice for frame editing/layers again/and more of those 'as original as your imagination' effects. For outgrowing the program - the moment your imagination runs out of ways to play with the options available to you, you'll outgrow it, that's a given.]

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Post by downwithpants » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:52 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:
gepetto wrote:
Jasper-Isis wrote:But that probably wouldn't happen because I like to edit with avs scripts, and there is no avs plugin for WMM. (Right?)
Unfortunately, you're right.
Someone here (I think it was Scintilla) mentioned a way to sort of...jury-rig wmm to accept avs files so you can edit directly the way you would in Premere, but it sounds *very* unstable. You'd need a fast, clean, computer to edit footage that way. If you edit with huffyuv you get no worse 'starting' quality than most people using the $600 programs.
yes, http://www.aquilinestudios.org/wmm2guide.html
i haven't used it though, so i don't know how well it works.
Arigatomyna wrote:The only real problem with quality would be the end result - Virtualdub with a quick 'directshow filter' and you'd be set to convert to huffyuv without quality loss (leaving you to pick your distribution xvid/mpg/etc). It's just an extra step. Toss in a nice little filter or two and the quality is no different from any other program. Of course, most people using Premiere tend to put out 90mb xvid files, so naturally if your bitrate is lower the final video won't be as spiffy. I find most wmm-converted files are smaller, while the wmvs are as bad (big) as the pro vids. Your choice of poison and all that.
using the dv-avi profile (assuming it doesn't mess up your video in other ways) results in pretty small loss of quality. even if it does mess up (which it usually does for me), windows media encoder allows you to encode high-bitrate (>100 Mbps) wmvs, which gives almost as good quality as dv-avi. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/usin ... ofile.mspx
from there you can directshow it to vdub and apply cleaning filters.
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Post by Scintilla » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:01 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:
gepetto wrote:
Jasper-Isis wrote:But that probably wouldn't happen because I like to edit with avs scripts, and there is no avs plugin for WMM. (Right?)
Unfortunately, you're right.
Someone here (I think it was Scintilla) mentioned a way to sort of...jury-rig wmm to accept avs files so you can edit directly the way you would in Premere, but it sounds *very* unstable. You'd need a fast, clean, computer to edit footage that way. If you edit with huffyuv you get no worse 'starting' quality than most people using the $600 programs.
Yes, it involves wrapping the AVS scripts with makeAVIS (which comes with ffvfw and most of the recent builds of ffdshow). Consult <a href="http://www.aquilinestudios.org/wmm2guide.html">the link</a> in my guide for more.

As Arigatomyna said, I would not personally recommend the script-wrapping method if you don't have a fairly powerful computer. That's why I also mention the more conventional alternative of feeding the AVS scripts to VDub(/Mod) and saving HuffYUV clips from them.
Arigatomyna wrote:The only real problem with quality would be the end result - Virtualdub with a quick 'directshow filter' and you'd be set to convert to huffyuv without quality loss (leaving you to pick your distribution xvid/mpg/etc). It's just an extra step. Toss in a nice little filter or two and the quality is no different from any other program.
Assuming that one knows how to get the best-quality WMV possible out of the WMM2 exporting options. (I like DWP's suggestion of creating custom WMV profiles that use very high bitrates (and end up producing files comparable in size to a DVD-quality MPEG-2, tweakable in the profile settings) to give a near-lossless export. I believe he's made such a profile, and I know I have, but I don't know if I have it uploaded anywhere.)

And then, of course, there's always DV AVI (if it doesn't cause audio synch problems that is, which I gather it often does).
Arigatomyna wrote:PhotoImpression (Arcsoft) comes free with Windows XP (along with wmm) and is as good as any Adobe PaintshopPro program without the cost - nice for frame editing/layers again/and more of those 'as original as your imagination' effects.
Really? Where's it installed?
I'm suddenly interested; I've never seen (or heard of) this program before.

(and by the way, PSP is by JASC; <b>Photo</b>shop is Adobe's. :wink: )
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Post by Scintilla » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:03 pm

Scintilla wrote:Consult <a href="http://www.aquilinestudios.org/wmm2guide.html">the link</a> in my guide for more.
And of course, by that I meant "Consult the link in my <b>signature</b> for more." >_<
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Castor Troy
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Post by Castor Troy » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:03 pm

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Post by requiett » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:09 pm

I want to see someone pull off some crazy hyperactive OMG FULL OF FX vid in WMM2.0. Show me that, and I won't badmouth it. ;)

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