What's wrong with using Windows Movie Maker 2?

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:08 pm

Kalium wrote:Hell, you can edit in AVS. Or use Cinelerra. Cost is a barrier to <b>certain programs</b>, not all alternatives.

That's more what I meant -- AdAmisK had mentioned Premiere and After Effects, so I was responding to that specifically.

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:55 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:
Zarxrax wrote:That's not really an excuse for not getting SOMETHING better. I mean hell, Koop said he only paid like $20 bucks for the version of Magix that he had.
Why does anyone need to excuse his (or her) self to you?

I'm not really sure what you read, but I don't believe I said anything that this entire thing that you just wrote would apply to. I never said anyone has to excuse himself to me. The fact is that someone DID make an excuse to me, and I merely told him that his excuse holds no validity.

Arigatomyna wrote:I like the program I use, so I use it. Don't like that? So what? Why should anyone be forced to use a program that isn't needed to enjoy the hobby? Because it has more options? A super computer has more options, but I don't need one to type my stories on.

I never said you shouldn't use it. I merely said that its a piece of shit that imposes limitations on what people can make. If you like it, then by all means, continue using it.

Arigatomyna wrote:But then, I have something better than the program I use. It sits in its folder and is only touched when I need it. I don't like it, so I don't use it. Who cares if it costs a few hundred bucks to buy while the program I use is free? I don't like it. I don't like using it. So I don't use it. I don't need an excuse, but if you have to have one to understand, I'll say it flat out.

Again, I never asked for excuses, and I never told anyone not to use what they want.

Arigatomyna wrote:I use what I like, and I like what I use. Same to you and everyone else.

/and using Koop as an example suggests the program makes the vid and not the editor - he usually stands as the opposite, proof that the editor makes the video and not the program. o.O

I used koop as an example because his video would have been flat out impossible to create using WMM, while also countering the persons excuse regarding cost.

And I've said it before... I've seen hundreds of videos made in WMM. Out of all of those, I've only seen one that I respect. Happens to be one of yours. While I am by no means the end-all-be-all authority on what makes a video good, I'd like to think that the fact that 99.9% of the videos made in it are crap is sort of a testimony to the quality of the program itself.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:15 pm

Zarxrax wrote:The fact is that someone DID make an excuse to me, and I merely told him that his excuse holds no validity.

I see. I guess it was the capital letters - it sounded like a "there's no excuse not to get SOMETHING better". And the idea that a person needs a valid excuse (or an excuse in the first place) irked me. But I'd agree that anyone who doesn't like wmm can go get another free program - so money isn't a problem. I guess there wasn't much to argue with after all. Too bad.

I used koop as an example because his video would have been flat out impossible to create using WMM...

Is this really true? I don't have the footage for that anime, but I'd think with a Photoshop program you could reproduce Euphoria with frame-by-frame editing alone (and Vdub, of course, to animate it and add the audio). Assuming there weren't any changes made to the audio track, most of the things done to the original footage could be done by hand (and I thought they were done that way - with a paint program). It would take a year, but it should be entirely possible. o.O

I've yet to find something in a video that can't be done with fbf editing. It's not the crayon Mona Lisa comparison - you use the same frames regardless of the program. It would be more like using a qtip to paint instead of a full-sized brush - takes a lot longer to get the same result since you can't pick the special brushes to get the variety of textures - you have to do them yourself.

I do admit, though, if I didn't like painting, I'd use the big brush myself to get it over with quicker. ;p

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:23 pm

Arigatomyna wrote:
I used koop as an example because his video would have been flat out impossible to create using WMM...
Is this really true? I don't have the footage for that anime, but I'd think with a Photoshop program you could reproduce Euphoria with frame-by-frame editing alone (and Vdub, of course, to animate it and add the audio). Assuming there weren't any changes made to the audio track, most of the things done to the original footage could be done by hand (and I thought they were done that way - with a paint program). It would take a year, but it should be entirely possible. o.O

I've yet to find something in a video that can't be done with fbf editing. It's not the crayon Mona Lisa comparison - you use the same frames regardless of the program. It would be more like using a qtip to paint instead of a full-sized brush - takes a lot longer to get the same result since you can't pick the special brushes to get the variety of textures - you have to do them yourself.

I do admit, though, if I didn't like painting, I'd use the big brush myself to get it over with quicker. ;p

You can MAKE anything with a "Photoshop program". But thats not the point. If you make it in photoshop then its a video made in photoshop... not a video made in WMM. There is absolutely NO difference should you decide to edit in Photoshop or should you decide to edit in After Effects... except that the After Effects video will be infinitely easier to create.
I'm basically saying, if you use photoshop as a video editor, then count it as your video editor, rather than tring to shove it under the rug and say its the work of WMM.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:44 pm

Zarxrax wrote:I'm basically saying, if you use photoshop as a video editor, then count it as your video editor, rather than tring to shove it under the rug and say its the work of WMM.

Premiere users who make crossover vids in Photoshop programs still label those vids as Premiere-made videos. They never say "I made this in PhotoExpress Plus". They give the name of the editing program they plugged those edited frames into, with the paint program second. WMM users do the same when they use paint programs to suplement the animating of videos. ^_^

/I'm not arguing with you really, this just came up with Castor's wmm contest as well - as if WMM users didn't use paint programs the same way Premiere users did - as accessories. I've never seen a crossover video that was made in premiere - all were done in some paint program (editing the frames themselves). Yet not a single one of those creators deemed it necessary to say "this wasn't done in premiere but in this or that photoshop". So WMM users don't need to, either, right?

AdAmisK · Post by **AdAmisK** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:51 pm

Well put Zarxrax.
Scintilla - you should be grateful you're in the states! Do you have any idea how much it costs me to get an original copy of premiere in South Africa!?!? +- R4000,00! ( I think thats close to about 350 dollars ). I geuss its a matter of willpower... I WANNA MAKE THE BEST AMV! (or something similar)

P.S. (I think Arigatomyna may be a little confused on whatit means to be an AMVist)

Voices_Of_Ryan · Post by **Voices_Of_Ryan** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:53 pm

AdAmisK wrote:Well put Zarxrax.
Scintilla - you should be grateful you're in the states! Do you have any idea how much it costs me to get an original copy of premiere in South Africa!?!? +- R4000,00! ( I think thats close to about 350 dollars ). I geuss its a matter of willpower... I WANNA MAKE THE BEST AMV! (or something similar)

P.S. (I think Arigatomyna may be a little confused on whatit means to be an AMVist)

It costs 600+ in the states to get it.
Whats your point?

Corran · Post by **Corran** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:54 pm

AdAmisK wrote:P.S. (I think Arigatomyna may be a little confused on whatit means to be an AMVist)

Really? She's made 96 amvs...

Voices_Of_Ryan · Post by **Voices_Of_Ryan** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:55 pm

Corran wrote:
AdAmisK wrote:P.S. (I think Arigatomyna may be a little confused on whatit means to be an AMVist)
Really? She's made 96 amvs...

I'm still waiting for the 100th =\

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:56 pm

Arigatomyna: Well there have been a few photoshop videos... notably Elvis vs Anime or the Eva/CowboyBebop alternate opening.
I'm really getting at when you do a significant ammount of actual EDITING work in the paint application, not just little touch up jobs or a little mask or something. Indeed, I used photoshop a little for a couple minor scenes myself, back in the day... thats not realy what I'm getting at. Mainly just the fact that you said you can make ANYTHING via that method... making some things like that, the paint program totally usurps the video program.