I want Yuri goddammit!

[melody-chan]

err...Yuri as in yaoi .....girl love ne ?

teehee my big bro has alot of yuri manga waste of pocket money if ya ask me ! i mean why buy yuri when you can buy the last volume of gravitation ...it's pointless =___= though there are some shoujo i like

tokyo mew mew yuri doujinshi's O.o
utena <<<that is shoujo ai
bubble gum crisi's <<i think that's how you spell it ~_^

[Emon47]

I see what you mean. But, realize that the basis of which this may or may not be perverted, hentai, or suggestive is based on the views of society, or our veiw on society. This is all based on opinion. The issue is so complex though, no one can actually see what is true about it. Yes, your point is well proven as well, and I'm aware well enough of everything else. Although you did quote me on a post you read already, I get that the post was inaccurate.

On the other hand, if you were implying what I think you were implying there - in the real world, I have trouble accepting that Yuri carries no sexual/erotic/pornographic connotation to it (assuming that your definition of Yuri is the same as mine).

I understand THIS by all means by far. I realize that in the real world, there is no way for some people to view this type of material without cringing and or protesting in way saying this is highly suggestive. What I was trying to say was an old George Carlin quote, that in a sense words are just words and everything else behind them requires human context.

I would give you an example, but that is a different topic different day.

[Clara Yuri Asaki]

teehee my big bro has alot of yuri manga waste of pocket money if ya ask me ! i mean why buy yuri when you can buy the last volume of gravitation ...it's pointless =___=

Well, that's not very nice. I may like Shoujo-Ai/Yuri a lot, but you don't see me going around saying that Yaoi is pointless and a waste of money.

And why buy Yuri when you can buy the last volume of Gravitation? Well, for starters, because we like Yuri more. I could look at your question and say to you, "Why buy Gravitation when you can buy Yuri?", but I already know it's because you like Yaoi more. We all have our own preferences, and it's just not nice (or fair) to bash or even question someone else's personal tastes and interests. Ne?

I have trouble accepting that Yuri carries no sexual/erotic/pornographic connotation to it (assuming that your definition of Yuri is the same as mine).

But Yuri really doesn't necessarily refer to sex or anything erotic in any way. Though it probably has picked up the connotation since the term was originally made... regardless of the word's true definition.

All "Yuri" was originally meant to suggest is that the women are actually romantically involved with each other.* Not necessarily having sex, just truly in love with each other. ^_~


*(As opposed to Shoujo-Ai, where they could just be friends or family.)

[Savia]

I would for the purposes of discussion like to mention the etymological fallacy, which is a commonly used and not entirely reputable agent in arguments that claim that the original meaning of a word has priority over its current meaning and that this is a basis for argument. Words do change meaning, and connotation; the original meaning can be either lessened or lost entirely. For instance, the etymological root of the term 'philosophy' (lit: love of knowledge) evolved through meaning any kind of scholarly study to its current meaning of the study of epistemology, ethics and so on.

And this is by no means meant as a refutation of the validity of the points that you make in your post, Clara; nor is it me taking a side on this debate. Rather I am saying that standing on the original root meaning of the term you use is not necessarily a valid proof for your conclusions.

[Otohiko]

Heh, yea, and I'd almost hate to start up the whole discussion of definitions, semantics and semiotics again. What Savia says is, generally, true - in fact, if you think of Yuri becoming associated with sex as a bad thing, that would be what linguists would call a 'pejorative semantic shift'. And whether or not that shift took place, if you look at the contexts in which the word Yuri is used, there's a good deal of 'sexual baggage' going with it, so to say - so that's going into the realm of associative symbology, or semiotics.

Anyways, let's not argue too much; personally, and you probably know this, I have nothing against this particular stream of art and fiction - quite the opposite, actually.

[Clara Yuri Asaki]

Rather I am saying that standing on the original root meaning of the term you use is not necessarily a valid proof for your conclusions

The meaning of the word "gay" has changed tremendously since its original definition, but it's still valid to use "gay" to mean "happy". Likewise, it's still valid to say Yuri doesn't refer necessarily to sex, despite the connotations it's picked up.

And whether or not that shift took place, if you look at the contexts in which the word Yuri is used, there's a good deal of 'sexual baggage' going with it, so to say

That's because all Anime-lesbian-sexual material is supposed to be categorized as Yuri. ^_^'

[Savia]

Rather I am saying that standing on the original root meaning of the term you use is not necessarily a valid proof for your conclusions

The meaning of the word "gay" has changed tremendously since its original definition, but it's still valid to use "gay" to mean "happy". Likewise, it's still valid to say Yuri doesn't refer necessarily to sex, despite the connotations it's picked up.

Oh, most certainly, just that you can't say that it shouldn't mean anything sexual; and furthermore that you can't say it (even in a nonsexual context) without expecting some sexual semantics to creep in.

And like Otohiko, I want to make sure that I'm discussing semantics and etymology here rather than making some kind of judgment on the genre as a whole ^_^;