An analysis of Noir's flaws

bum · Post by **bum** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:42 am

How about all thoughs guards they killed in varios places? People who are just trying to make a living. Oh and specificaly that old man who was helping people for some sort of self repentance.

Keeper of Hellfire · Post by **Keeper of Hellfire** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:19 am

bum wrote:How about all thoughs guards they killed in varios places?

Guards of bosses of the mafia and similar criminal organizations which aren't members of the organization, aren't criminals too? You're kidding me or you're naiv.

bum wrote:Oh and specificaly that old man who was helping people for some sort of self repentance.

One who is responsible for ethnic cleansing is innocent? Sorry if I doubt your sense for just and injust, guilt and innocence.

There are only two cases in which it is disputable if the opponents are guilty in some way, but both cases are self defense:

Spoilers wrote:The soldiers in Ulgia. But the probability is high that they are involved in General Camora's revolt, which would them make guilty too.
The soldiers in ep. 22. But here are some hints that they are Soldat's members. They are obviously German special forces, retrieving a Japanese assassin at the French-Spanish border! Deployment of German special forces in foreign countries needs the agreement of a German parliament committee, which I doubt they have, considering the short time span between Soldat's leaders request and the deployment. So they do something illegal. And we know from ep.12, that German soldiers are Soldat's members too.

bobbarker31 · Post by **bobbarker31** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:53 am

It is a old justification made by all kinds of people in the more martial of professions. I have only watched the first five episodes but I quickly realized Mireille's attitude toward her contracts "They are scum".

I am reminded of that scene in Austin Powers where they show what happens after one of Dr. Evil's henchmen is killed. His family grieves, his friends miss him... he was only taking a job as a henchman for the money.

Pyle · Post by **Pyle** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:16 pm

Luckily, episode 25 made up for all of the shortcomings of the rest of the series.

Saddest...thing...ever. This is the only thing that ever made me cry while watching it.

Noir Spoilers wrote:When you can see Chloe's body lying on the alter and Kirika lays the fork down and then the choir music starts in...best part of the series. Probably the best done scene in anime, IMO.

Keeper of Hellfire · Post by **Keeper of Hellfire** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:23 pm

bobbarker31 wrote:It is a old justification made by all kinds of people in the more martial of professions.

If it was in reply to me - I didn't want to justify Noirs deeds. I was only argueing against a wrong claim.

bobbarker31 wrote:I have only watched the first five episodes but I quickly realized Mireille's attitude toward her contracts "They are scum".

If watching ep.6, don't let Kirika distract you to much, always keep an eye at Mireille.

Pyle wrote:Luckily, episode 25 made up for all of the shortcomings of the rest of the series.

Saddest...thing...ever. This is the only thing that ever made me cry while watching it.

It's a truly sad episode. Maybe I can make you smile a little bit about it in near future - I'm working at a parody to it. But it may take a while since I decided to kick the project short before it's finalization because of the flaws of the PAL sources and to redo it with NTSC sources. I hope they are better.

bum · Post by **bum** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:10 pm

Keeper of Hellfire wrote:
bum wrote:Oh and specificaly that old man who was helping people for some sort of self repentance.
One who is responsible for ethnic cleansing is innocent? Sorry if I doubt your sense for just and injust, guilt and innocence.

So a man helping people in order to repent for his past sins deserves a death sentence, esspecialy as his death will only hurt more people relying on his help? I just found so much of the killing senseless, not to mention repetitive and ultimately boring.

Keeper of Hellfire · Post by **Keeper of Hellfire** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:18 am

bum wrote:So a man helping people in order to repent for his past sins deserves a death sentence, esspecialy as his death will only hurt more people relying on his help?

Don't mess up the things. You called him innocent, what he isn't. He did one of the worst crimes. If death penalty is the proper punishment is a completly different thing. To clarify: I'm opponent of death penalty, 'cause as you say it causes only more pain, and doesn't help the victims of the crime in any way.

So keep the things together and say:"They killed too much." and not "They killed too much innocent."

EvaXephon · Post by **EvaXephon** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:35 pm

Hm, while we're on the subject of that topic, I wonder...why exactly did that man close his eyes when he saw Kirika pointing a gun at him?

Did he figure out that she was an assassin from the rival clan, and accept his fate?

Did he figure that he was having a dream?

Did he die right at that moment, before the bullet went into him?

Or, was it one of those ambiguous "Let the viewer decide" moments?

Keeper of Hellfire · Post by **Keeper of Hellfire** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:28 pm

EvaXephon wrote:Or, was it one of those ambiguous "Let the viewer decide" moments?

I choose this one.

Of course, I have my own theory on this:

Spoilers wrote:Nazarov has done horrible things, but at one point in his life he startet to regret his deeds. He starts to atone, by caring for the poor. The memories to his deeds cause a permanent pain, he is willing to die to end this pain. But like the most people he can't do suicide. So he starts to ruin his health, is waiting for the death. Kirika expresses this by saying "He's waiting for the snow". So seeing Kirika ready for the kill is like a moment of redemption. He is prepared, finally someone fullfills his wish.

That brings me to some other points that people can see as flaws:

- Often the charas speak in riddles or do only implications.
- There is much symbolism in Noir. If you miss it, you miss much of the fun. But if you figure it out too early it can ruin you the show because it's spoilerific.

EvaXephon · Post by **EvaXephon** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:34 pm

Well, he didn't look too happy when those guys were being shot, so I think he felt guilt and regret even back in the past. But I think you're 100% right about everything else you said.

I'm used to riddle-speak and implications, and it's always fun to learn what it means (Like I just learned what Kirika's snow comment meant)