Christianity in Anime

[Solaria735]

I'm still trying to figure out the cross as a symbol. It was a Roman murder weapon. Not to mention it was a spear wound that killed Christ. But it is cool symbol especially in Trigun.

Well, that's pretty simple anyway. Christians believe that Jesus Christ was crucified, i.e. killed on a cross, thus atoning for the sins of mankind, so the cross is a symbol of God's love for humanity. Although you are correct, he was speared, but it wasn't that one thing that killed him- he was speared, and then later the guards were ordered to go out and break his legs to kill him, because they didn't think the spear would do it. (He was already dead when they got that order though.) Furthermore, he then rose from the dead, which is why the cross is often empty (without Christ's body on it) as a symbol of God's power. Thus, it became one of the main symbols of the Christian faith (competing with the fish early on), and this is why Wolfwood, and most priests, use crosses.

[MCWagner]

Wow... latecomer here, and lots to comment on, just glad to see that everyone's being so civil about it...

Christianity makes up 1% of the Japanese population. Christian missionaries that landed in Japan (before Japan was sealed off to foreigners in fact) started a grassroots campaign to spread the word of God, and while it didn't really take in Japan, there were still some that decided to convert to Christianity.

"Didn't take in Japan" is a pretty polite way of putting it for the first Christian missionaries. There was a mass slaughter conducted against the missionaries and their followers during the earliest eras, as Japan strived to "eliminate Western influence" and attempted to stomp out anything that didn't derive directly from their "pure" culture. Christianity in Japan was driven into extinction by 1638 in a manner the Spanish Inquisition would have found very familiar. (This also happens to answer the previous comment that Japanese religons didn't experience their own "Crusades." Reduced in stature, but still pretty damn bloody.) Christianity didn't re-enter the country until 1873. This is mentioned in some asides and little plot points in Rounin Kenshin and Lone Wolf and Cub.

Now for Shinto and Buddhism, those two vie for the top religion in Japan. The big differences that set the two religions apart from Christianity is:

1) They are older than Christianity by a couple thousand years.

Quibbling point here... Shinto is a pretty ancient religon so we're not really sure of it's origin date (though it's at least 300-500 years older than Christianity... or older, depending on how you define Shintoism), but Buddhism has a pretty set start date... May of 563 BC when Buddha was born. Not "thousands" of years.

I bet if anyone who was devouted to Christianity and had deep faith and beliefs would scream bloody murder to the people who made Ninja Resurrection.

Ba hAHAHAHAHAHA... Dude, as a devout Christian, I can easily tell you that that's not even close to the worst thing I've seen Christianity portrayed as. My other hobby is horror/art flicks and comics. Some of the stuff you encounter out the experimental end of the field makes anime's worst look tame. Anime may have some of the most <i>confusing</i> portrayals (see Eva) through the combination in some pieces between a little information, not understanding some central tenents, and not caring... but that's another issue altogether.

Religion in Anime:
It’s all over the place as a large part of any culture. Christianity is certainly not the largest religion in the world, but it is prevalent with some very interesting stories and ideas.

Uh... http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html (Quick google search)

Re: Hellsing. Actually, this one is a pet peeve of mine. (For starters, why couldn't they spell the damn name right? It's van <b>HELSING</b>! No double-l!) Mostly due to the relation between the different sects of Christianity... look, the idea that the ANGLICANS of all people get into a turf war with the Catholics, throwing down like the Bloods and Crips in this day and age is just laughable. "You kill this undead spawn of Satan on our turf and there'll be trouble, you dirty Catholic!" *snap* *snap* *snap*.

It's hardly surprising, though, considering how genuinely weird most anime gets when it includes Christianity. Seems that the only Christian the Japanese understand is the street-preacher, the bumbling Crusader, or the corrupt priest in half a dozen Hentai titles.

It didn't used to be that way, though... it used to be EVEN WEIRDER. Dave Merrill used to run clips in Anime Hell from "The Flying House"... an Anime from the early 70's (IIRC) that used to tell weirdly distorted Bible tales. Ask him some time about how they edited Salome down to a 6-year old.

Don't think I'm making too much of this... the weird perspective on Christianity seems to be just that... an odd perspective. You want to see a religous figure really torn apart, take an index of the Buddhist monks in anime.... they fare much, much worse. Either completely incompetent freeloaders (Cherry from Urusei Yatsura), nature-destroying opportunists (Mononoke Hime), or out-and-out tyrannical rulers (Dagger of Kamui), Anime doesn't spare the hometown team an inch. I've lost count of the number of times a good guy in the historical stories has to fight through evil Buddhist monks to reach the end. They always seem to be the level just beyond "ninjas."

[OtakuMan22]

Wow, I feel like I just learn more and more from this thread every day. Pretty cool actually!

Anyway, on to the comments!

First of all, Dylan's forcelance, no need to worry about it. Miscommunications happen all the time on the web. It's just a matter of spotting them and clarifying them. Might take a little explaining, but it can be done!

As for the crosses, that actually makes good sense. I'd never thought about why they were a holy symbol, but you got a good point there.

And now onto MCWagner, whose got some really good stuff:

There was a mass slaughter conducted against the missionaries and their followers during the earliest eras, as Japan strived to "eliminate Western influence" and attempted to stomp out anything that didn't derive directly from their "pure" culture. Christianity in Japan was driven into extinction by 1638 in a manner the Spanish Inquisition would have found very familiar.

Wow, guess I really underestimated how strongly Japan felt against people like that. At least way back when. Although it went extinct, weren't there some missonaries or other converts that were living in secret during that time? I could have sworn I read that somewhere.

Quibbling point here... Shinto is a pretty ancient religon so we're not really sure of it's origin date (though it's at least 300-500 years older than Christianity... or older, depending on how you define Shintoism), but Buddhism has a pretty set start date... May of 563 BC when Buddha was born. Not "thousands" of years.

563 BC? Huh, for some reason I thought he was born much earlier than that. I really got to track down Osamu Tezuka's biography of Buddha. It's supposed to be really good, and has finally been translated into English! Anyway, my bad, but at least I can claim I learned the year Buddha was born today if nothing else!

My other hobby is horror/art flicks and comics. Some of the stuff you encounter out the experimental end of the field makes anime's worst look tame.

Well, now I'm curious! What kind of stuff is out there?

Re: Hellsing. Actually, this one is a pet peeve of mine. (For starters, why couldn't they spell the damn name right? It's van HELSING! No double-l!) Mostly due to the relation between the different sects of Christianity...

You know, I never really made the connection between Hellsing and Van HELSING before until you just said that. All of a sudden, the series starts to make a LOT more sense about why Lady Hellsing is so important. Of course, I think the Japanese got it right the first time! They spell it:

HE-RU-SHI-N-GU

With only one instance of "Ru" which is the common "R" and "L" in Japanese. (I'm unfamiliar with Korean, Mandarin and Cantonese Chinese, and other Eastern Asia languages to know whether they have the same dilemma or not. Although I know Chinese has the letter "X" in there somewhere and Japanese does not, so maybe Chinese has "L" and "R" as separate entities too? Anyone able to confirm?)

Because there is only one "Ru", there is only one "L", and thus: HELSING!

I wonder if there was a problem with copyright or things like that? After all, there was that Vanb Helsing movie?

look, the idea that the ANGLICANS of all people get into a turf war with the Catholics, throwing down like the Bloods and Crips in this day and age is just laughable. "You kill this undead spawn of Satan on our turf and there'll be trouble, you dirty Catholic!" *snap* *snap* *snap*.

There is a good reason why things are fictional, but it's still quite amusing, accurate to history and real life or not!

It didn't used to be that way, though... it used to be EVEN WEIRDER. Dave Merrill used to run clips in Anime Hell from "The Flying House"... an Anime from the early 70's (IIRC) that used to tell weirdly distorted Bible tales. Ask him some time about how they edited Salome down to a 6-year old.

Before I got into anime, my little brother had a friend who lived nearby, and he had tapes of an anime called "SuperBook". The "SuperBook" is of course The Bible, and it features different Bible stories for kids that seemed to flow in a chronological order. The parents of my brother's friends were quite strict in their TV watching, but permitted him to have these tapes. Likewise, if I went over to keep an eye out on my brother, I'd often find these tapes on the TV, and yeah, it WAS weird! I was too young at the time to know exactly what anime was yet (Man, it's been years since I saw those tapes), but I knew enough to know that it was not like those Bible stories that overtly religious parents might push on you.

I know of both "Flying House" and "SuperBook", and I guess now's a good time to figure out which is weirder!

You want to see a religous figure really torn apart, take an index of the Buddhist monks in anime.... they fare much, much worse. Either completely incompetent freeloaders (Cherry from Urusei Yatsura), nature-destroying opportunists (Mononoke Hime), or out-and-out tyrannical rulers (Dagger of Kamui), Anime doesn't spare the hometown team an inch. I've lost count of the number of times a good guy in the historical stories has to fight through evil Buddhist monks to reach the end. They always seem to be the level just beyond "ninjas."

A very good point you have there. I've seen both good and bad Buddhist monks AND Shinto priests. It's either a bad seed amongst the ranks that has ulterior motives or an entire sect that is SO not what the real religion is like. I figure someone's trying to make fun of something, do something just for senseless entertainment (Wouldn't it be cool if...?), or has some sort of message or opinion of the creators that is trying to be gotten across (

like that evil bitch witch lady in Wolf's Rain. I was SO glad when she died!

)

The most creative example stateside of this sort of "Bad seed in the ranks" kind of lampooning that I can think of is this one episode of South Park.

In it, Kyle and Kenny head off with Ike to a Jewish Jamboree camp kind of thing ("Jewbilee" was it?). When the Rabbis gather together and check off the attendance of the representatives of different sects, one young Rabbi goes "I'm here to represent the Anti-Semite branch of Judaism". The other Rabbis go, "Wait, what?". Likewise, it led to a very funny episode!

So I guess no matter what culture, any religion or political party can be lampooned just like anything else these days. It's either highly entertaining or provides something to think about.

Cool ain't it?

~Otaku-Man

[MCWagner]

Although it went extinct, weren't there some missonaries or other converts that were living in secret during that time? I could have sworn I read that somewhere.

There may have been... but it would also make a pretty cool story idea for a historical drama. I don't know if there's any real evidence to prove it.

My other hobby is horror/art flicks and comics. Some of the stuff you encounter out the experimental end of the field makes anime's worst look tame.

Well, now I'm curious! What kind of stuff is out there?

If you're actually interested, e-mail me. I couldn't really get into it here. Just descriptions would get me kicked out for language...

Because there is only one "Ru", there is only one "L", and thus: HELSING!

I wonder if there was a problem with copyright or things like that? After all, there was that Vanb Helsing movie?

Hmm... hadn't considered that. Certainly a possibility.

I've seen both good and bad Buddhist monks AND Shinto priests.

Really? I can't really think of any evil Shinto priests I've seen... It was explained to me a long time ago (in a book somewhere... can't remember) that it's commonly thought that all Japanese "live Shinto and die Buddhist," because Shinto is a <i>fun</i> religon, with festivals and celebrations and all... but don't really have much in the way of funeral rights, or a very well-defined afterlife. Buddhists, however, have the whole ascetic ascention to Nirvana and a pretty elaborate examination of the afterlife, as well as carefully structured ideas about funerals. Deathbed conversion from one to the other used to (and may still) occur commonly.

The upshot, though, is that people started associating Buddhists with death and the more somber religous practices... so it was a darker source for people to set up "shock! a priest is scheming/corrupt/evil" storylines from.

[OtakuMan22]

Oh there can be dark Shinto characters as well. Inu-Yasha has some good examples. For example, a rat demon disguises himself in shinto garb to try and drive away a demon that's the same kind as Kilala. Also, there's that dark priestess rival of Kikyo's who gets so jealous of the "pure" powers that she has, that she begins practicing curses and even fuses with an oni. NOT a very good miko if you ask me!

And what about PMing some examples of yours to me? As a private message, I doubt you'd get called on for language. Plus, since I asked for this information in the first place, it would be VERY hypocritical of me to claim verbal abuse when I asked for harsh words and descriptions to begin with! I think that would work, yes?

And you're very right about the "Live Shinto, Die Buddhist". I'm not sure if the afterlife with Enma is part of shinto or buddhism, but I think I read somewhere that your soul in Shinto does not go to an afterlife like it does in Buddhism. I could be wrong though...

And yes, the underground Christian believers would make for a neat story. I wonder if that will show up in Samurai Champloo?

~Otaku-Man

[BasharOfTheAges]

Angel Sanctuary is another... though there's too much basic discussion about the two main characters incest love affair to really be christian either.. ^__^)

Well... I believe there is some incest in the Bible directly and indirectly. And if you believe the whole Judeo-Christian creation story you have to realize that from 1 man and 1 woman the earth was populated; so someone was screwing their sister, daughter, niece, etc. somewhere; and probably more than just a few times.

[HeavyMetal]

Solaria735 sorry I guess I didn't make myself clear. I know why the cross is important to Christians. I just find it odd, considering that it was a murder weapon. A people that saw generations of people killed quite horrifically suddenly adopted the cross as a symbol of faith and salvation. That is what I find baffling.

Of course, I suppose Jesus really didn't leave much along the lines of symbolism to unite his followers after he left or much along the lines of instructions for continuing the faith in terms of institutions like church. I guess the empty cross was just the last impression. It does make a statement.

MCWagner a quick google search may not be terribly accurate. It’s the internet. The largest portions of the world's population are in mostly Buddhist countries. Not to mention that a Buddhist can also practice other religions.

I think the big skew is the fact that not all religions are exclusive. Someone could have traditional Chinese beliefs, Taoism, Buddhism, and several other religions simultaneously. But from what I can see Adherents does not have a way to express this.

I am not sure what the sample population on that site was based on. Sikhism seems about right though, but what kind of survey would leave out Daoism. (Or Taoism the T and D sound are sort of combined so it gets spelled either way in English.)

This might be part of the reason.
Religion is a Western word. There was a survey done in China that asked people if they were religious. The answer was No. However, the same people on the same survey also checked yes for practicing Buddhist and Confucious teachings. By the way Confucious is also a western word, his name is Kung Fu Tze with much more accent than Confucious.

Who's asking, how honest they are, and how they ask can really alter numbers. Maybe their statistics are right, but I don’t know. From my understanding they get the information from comparative religion classes.

If they are right I am very afraid, yet not as alone as I thought. Oh well at least Europe gave up on forcing various religions on others. Decades of war can do that I guess, except for Ireland.

[BasharOfTheAges]

Who's asking, how honest they are, and how they ask can really alter numbers. Maybe their statistics are right, but I don’t know. From my understanding they get the information from comparative religion classes.

Last time i checked, there were a fair amount of nations in which openly practiced religions were illegal or in which people would be afraid to accurately represent their beliefs in polls for fear of retribution.

[EmilLang1000]

I can believe it... you ever seen anybody walkiing around France with a Yamika on? Many people in the world are still Xenophobic, or at least religiously intollerant.

[MCWagner]

MCWagner a quick google search may not be terribly accurate. It’s the internet. The largest portions of the world's population are in mostly Buddhist countries.

I'm having trouble finding any sources that say Buddhism has more than 500 million adherents (most say 350 mil), which puts it at a fairly distant fourth, behind Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. I presume the country you're referring to is China, but numbers coming out of China are weird and hard to come by. The only number I found was a little over 100 million Chinese Buddhists today. The reason for the odd absence of figures is the communist repression of religon that took place from the late 1940s to the late 1970s. Though pressure has officially backed off in China since then, and state-sponsored religous worship is allowed, there's still some pretty frightening supression going on across the board that makes any real accouting suspect, adherents possibly not wanting to admit to following a religon. Still, the most optimistic estimate in China would only move Buddhism up to around the same number as Islam, and would require a still-further doubling to supplant Christianity.

I think the big skew is the fact that not all religions are exclusive. Someone could have traditional Chinese beliefs, Taoism, Buddhism, and several other religions simultaneously. But from what I can see Adherents does not have a way to express this.

A good question... but I'm uncertain how anyone could accurately reflect this, and what percentage of Buddhists practice multitheism. I believe the numbers involved come from estimates given by the religous organizations themselves (who have an understandable interest in keeping track).

I am not sure what the sample population on that site was based on. Sikhism seems about right though, but what kind of survey would leave out Daoism. (Or Taoism the T and D sound are sort of combined so it gets spelled either way in English.)

I think Taoism and Confucianism are included (along with a scattered handful of others) under "Chinese Traditional." Likely due to the difficulty in distinguishing between them in the already muddled numbers from China.