The "Good" AMVs on this website

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Earl6282
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The "Good" AMVs on this website

Post by Earl6282 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:17 pm

Hopefully I'm not offending TOO many people. It's not that I intend to, I'm simply pointing out some flaws in the whole favored-amv pattern.
Is it just me, or does animemusicvideos.org seem to have a handful of people with a really bad taste in anime? And music, for what it's worth? I mean, of all the really good anime out there, like Serial Experiments Lain, Akira, Samurai X, .hack//Sign, Ceres, maybe even Steel Angel Kurumi, almost everybody decides to award all of the kudos to AMVs of Naruto, Inuyasha, Kenshin (which is really just the kiddy version of Samurai X) and DBZ. And they call themselves Anime appreciators? Yeah, just because ya stay up all night watching the late-night anime on Cartoon Network doesn't make ANYBODY an Anime Appreciator. As for the music, it doesn't bother me as much. But it's always the same Linkin Park, Evanescense (sorry folks, but that's NOT real Goth Rock), some psuedo-metal, etc. Looks like some people need to get out of the house more.
And a lot of these AMVs don't always match up to the music very well either. And there's a handful of the AMVs that recieved 1,000,000 views and high opinions, simply because they squeezed 157 different anime into one AMV. I don't get it, folks, I really don't. There are WAY better animes as well as AMVs out there, yet so many people fail to see it. Am I right? Am I making a valid point here or am I just some forum asswipe?

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Zarxrax
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Post by Zarxrax » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:35 pm

The cartoon network folks make up the majority of "amv creators" these days (amv creator being defined by the ability to randomly splice together anime of the week with song of the week using downloaded materials on a $300 pc). However, these people do not make up the actual amv *community*, in which many talented creators actually put some pride into their work. Unfortunately, there are far more people out there who just make crap because they can. Probably 95% of the creators signed up here at the site fit that profile.

For the other 5%, you can find their work listed under the Viewer's Choice Award winners, the Recommended AMVs forum, or the Top star scale, among numerous other resources on the site for weeding out the cream of the crop from the crap of the crop.

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Post by Earl6282 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:57 pm

Zarxrax wrote:The cartoon network folks make up the majority of "amv creators" these days (amv creator being defined by the ability to randomly splice together anime of the week with song of the week using downloaded materials on a $300 pc). However, these people do not make up the actual amv *community*, in which many talented creators actually put some pride into their work. Unfortunately, there are far more people out there who just make crap because they can. Probably 95% of the creators signed up here at the site fit that profile.

For the other 5%, you can find their work listed under the Viewer's Choice Award winners, the Recommended AMVs forum, or the Top star scale, among numerous other resources on the site for weeding out the cream of the crop from the crap of the crop.
Unfortunately, the Viewer's Choice Award winners ALSO was made up of a handful of Naruto videos, in addition to Full Metal Alchemist. And in the Suggested AMVs Forum, BAM! I see threads titled "AMVs with Naruto", "AMVs with Inuyasha", and "AMVs with Kenshin". The Top Star scale also consisted of a lot of the same stuff.
I mean... can't people be the slightest bit original?

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Post by SuperFusion » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:02 pm

Earl6282 wrote:
Zarxrax wrote:The cartoon network folks make up the majority of "amv creators" these days (amv creator being defined by the ability to randomly splice together anime of the week with song of the week using downloaded materials on a $300 pc). However, these people do not make up the actual amv *community*, in which many talented creators actually put some pride into their work. Unfortunately, there are far more people out there who just make crap because they can. Probably 95% of the creators signed up here at the site fit that profile.

For the other 5%, you can find their work listed under the Viewer's Choice Award winners, the Recommended AMVs forum, or the Top star scale, among numerous other resources on the site for weeding out the cream of the crop from the crap of the crop.
Unfortunately, the Viewer's Choice Award winners ALSO was made up of a handful of Naruto videos, in addition to Full Metal Alchemist. And in the Suggested AMVs Forum, BAM! I see threads titled "AMVs with Naruto", "AMVs with Inuyasha", and "AMVs with Kenshin". The Top Star scale also consisted of a lot of the same stuff.
I mean... can't people be the slightest bit original?


Wait, wait...Anime MADE a video original? I mean, damn.. I thought Whisper of the Beast was a damn original video, but hey...According to you, it isn't. :roll:

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Corran
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Post by Corran » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:03 pm

Just because they consist of those sources does not mean the videos suck. You don't have to be original to make something people like.

If they are on the top list then that means they must stand out in some way or another. Give those videos a chance before you bash them for using something popular/overused.


BTW the suggestion forum is not the same as the recommendion forum that Zarx linked to.

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Kalium
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Post by Kalium » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:03 pm

Earl6282 wrote:Unfortunately, the Viewer's Choice Award winners ALSO was made up of a handful of Naruto videos, in addition to Full Metal Alchemist. And in the Suggested AMVs Forum, BAM! I see threads titled "AMVs with Naruto", "AMVs with Inuyasha", and "AMVs with Kenshin". The Top Star scale also consisted of a lot of the same stuff.
I mean... can't people be the slightest bit original?
Using Naruto or Full Metal Alchemist doesn't make them unoriginal. Unoriginal editing makes them unoriginal.

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OtakuMan22
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Post by OtakuMan22 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:04 pm

*KLAXONS GO OFF AND RED LIGHTS FLASH*

OH CRAP! THIS COULD GET UGLY!

*dives in to save the thread before the flames start to rise*

*grabs fire extinguiser and sprays out these words*

Okay, you touched upon some sentimentalities that I share as well, but unless put in the right context, this could explode into something that can and WILL offend people! So let me if I can help re-word this post a bit to keep all kinds of hell from breaking loose!
almost everybody decides to award all of the kudos to AMVs of Naruto, Inuyasha, Kenshin (which is really just the kiddy version of Samurai X) and DBZ.
FIRST! Samurai X IS Rurouni Kenshin, not a kiddy-fied version. The Rurouni Kenshin TV series IS the original Kenshin based off the manga. The Samurai X OAV and the second Kenshin movie use more serious and dramatic styles because that's where the OAV AND MOVIE DIRECTORS wanted to take it, NOT THE MANGA-KA, the guy who made Kenshin!

I want to make this LOUD AND CLEAR that you do not think of the Kenshin TV series and first movie as any less than the original TV series. They are all part of the same story, but the attitudes are different because of the settings and times, and there are times in the TV series when Kenshin gets pretty tough as is. I bet you haven't seen as much of the TV series as I'm sure you've seen the four part OAV which is the prequel to the TV series.

Stuff from the OAV shows up in the TV series later on, so it's all tied together!

We clear on that? I want to make sure you are so that NOBODY else tries to correct you and do it in a mean and insulting and flame war starting way! Okay?

Next topic:
I mean, of all the really good anime out there, like Serial Experiments Lain, Akira, Samurai X, .hack//Sign, Ceres, maybe even Steel Angel Kurumi
Now there are some good AMVs out there based on these series. I know that there are some VERY good Lain videos out there, and I recall Steel Angel Kurumi being used very well in a DDR Project video.

I for one have my own issues regarding people around here NOT using the more classic anime in their vids. Rarely do I see Astro Boy, Kimba: The White Lion, Gigantor, or even Speed Racer (you think there'd be more if even GEICO can use it for a vid!)

These vids are rare and in between, but every now and then there's a diamond in the rough, and when used properly, they can blow others out of the water.

Going back to what you said earlier about the BILLIONS of other vids that are based off of the "popular" anime, I have to admit that finding good vids in these series is a hard thing to do. BUT, because of their popularity, they supposedly have LOTS of footage, and from that comes a good vid.

Naruto has starting rising as having just as many bad vids as DBZ thanks to its popularity. Now here's the good news:

Because it's so popular, sometimes a REALLY good AMV can come out of it that's totally mind-blowing. One example is the Naruto "I Feel Great" video. It takes the infamous, un-aired Nutri-Grain commercial audio and used Naruto footage that fit GREAT! The lip synching was great and it was totally awesome.

The same can be said for series back when they were FIRST popular. Sailor Moon, for example, used to have vids made for it all the time, and one of the best was "Senshi on Springer" which was FREAKIN' HILARIOUS!


So here's the dillemma:

If a not-so popular series has an AMV made out of it, is it a good AMV, and how can one make it good?

And, is there enough material to make a good vid if it's a two-part OAV?


This leads to vid SPLICING!
And there's a handful of the AMVs that recieved 1,000,000 views and high opinions, simply because they squeezed 157 different anime into one AMV.
I am reminded of the Odorikuruu vid that came out a few years back which had a constant barrage of anime charas dancing around. It made good use of effects and had some good audio and video editing to make it all flow seamlessly.

The good thing about multi-anime vids is that there is a near UNLIMITED amount of footage that can be used because you aren't limiting yourself to one series. Even using two series "Tainted Donuts" can produce fantastic results IF used properly! The theme of Odorikuruu was "A Celebration of Anime" more or less, and it did a good job of it. "Tainted Donuts" also made good use of editing and created a theme that worked great!

It doesn't always work though:
And a lot of these AMVs don't always match up to the music very well either.
This is a gripe of many because amateur vid makers may not know what they are doing. When making a vid, you are the Director, just like the Director of a real music video or a movie. You have to make the music and the footage flow, and try and get the feeling and mood to match as good as possible. It may not be easy, BUT THAT'S WHAT MAKES AMV's FUN! Trying to match footage to audio is a fun CHALLENGE! Do well, and it gets awards and applause. Do poorly, and try again!

The worst crime that happens in AMV is that there are some GREAT vids out there, and people don't leave opinions. Even for bad vids, people don't give the constructive criticism that could help a person keep from making better vids, or even REDOING the vid!
As for the music, it doesn't bother me as much. But it's always the same Linkin Park, Evanescense (sorry folks, but that's NOT real Goth Rock), some psuedo-metal, etc. Looks like some people need to get out of the house more.
There was another thread about this, and I have to agree that AMV makers need a more diverse range of music. I see it as a two-part problem:

1) The AMV maker is very well schooled in anime and decides to make an AMV using an anime that's good, but not often watched or seen. They think it's good, and it is good too. BUT THEY KNOW SQUAT ABOUT MUSIC! They take their MTV (the supposed "source" for good music) stuff and try and put it together to a vid. Since the music is so overdone, the vid comes out bad!

2) The musically talented person may know music history by heart, and can list albums and the songs on them without batting an eye. They want to express their love of music and anime by meshing the two into an AMV. BUT THEY DON'T KNOW MANY ANIME! They take their Cartoon Network and Adult Swim sources, and mesh them together into a vid that can come out good, but because the show is so overdone, it often gets ignored because it's just "another DBZ vid", even if it's the best vid ever with DBZ!


The real skill is to have a knowledge and mastery of both music AND anime to create the really great vids. I remember Kevin Caldwell (considered one of the greatest AMV makers of all time) did the William Tell Overture to Child's Toy. Child's Toy was not released in the US, so it would have been considered rare at the time, and the music was CLASSICAL MUSIC! Practically NOBODY had used classical music before!

But he put them together, edited them, and it WORKED! It worked so well, that even non-members of the org can watch it because it is considered a PRIME example of good AMV making.


So how to stop the influx of new and bad videos?

1) Be helpful on the forums. Answer people's questions and give advice. As long as your nice, some people will actually listen and you'll walk away feeling happy that you helped someone.

2) Leave an opinion for a vid, ESPECIALLY if it has less than 10 opinions. Even if the vid is bad, constructive crticism helps. You might get a reply back from the AMV creator thanking you for your criticism and promises to make a better vid next time, or re-do the vid they made (always allowed!)

3) Share! Always share your knowledge, your wisdom, advice, and especially links to OTHER sources of information. It will help people out greatly.

I've been here for a while now, and I've seen some people from here and abroad thank me for some of the things I've said. Granted it's not all the time, but when it happens, it gives me a sense of satisfaction for staying here on the boards. Makes it all worthwhile, ya' know?

It has even inspired me to try and publish in a weblog or through an online magazine some of my discoveries and advice so that it can be more widely read and recognized and useful.

You never know who might thank you!

~Otaku-Man
www.hammergirlanime.com - Rochester, NY's only store devoted completely to anime, manga, anime/manga merchandise, and pocky! Pachinko machines for sale and Initial-D 3rd Stage Arcade Game in store!

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Zarxrax
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Post by Zarxrax » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:12 pm

OtakuMan22 wrote:stuff
Damn, thats one of the longest posts I've ever seen. Right on the money though.

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staces
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Post by staces » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:35 pm

Though I am not a fan of CN anime or Naruto, I believe that one's taste in anime is completely subjective and that people should be allowed to use whatever anime and music combinations they please.

Just because you dislike something does not make it a bad anime. I personally am 80% here solely for any YAOI/yuri AMVs that I can dig out of this site. That would obviously mean that I tend to bypass most of the most popular AMVs on the site in favor of some lesser known, less decorated creators here. I have no problems with the fact that most people around here are action and comedy loving boys yet so many seem to have a problem with shoujo loving girls (everyone and their mother has heard about "oh my God those stupid insane fangirls" before." But anyways, back on topic. . . .

Why should anyone have a problem with others having different tastes from themselves? If you do not like something you do not have to watch it, it's as simple as that. Believe me, I know it's frustrating to only have a very small number of AMVs on the site for an anime you like (go all 9 Kasho no Tsuki AMVs, 5 of which are mine! >_<) but that doesn't invalidate the AMVs made for series you don't like or the Americanized "OMG Japanimation- fighting and boobies!!1" stuff that's currently in taste around here.
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OtakuMan22
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Post by OtakuMan22 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:55 pm

Hey Zarx, if you think that's long, you should see some of my other posts. That's actually my average length of a post whenever it's a topic I'm really big into. I've done much longer, some taking an hour or more just to type! I'm looking into seeing if I can get some of this stuff published. It'd make for some great editorial articles, and then my wife will stop complaining that I'm wasting time writing all these long posts. That way I'd get more cred for my writing! :)

(BTW, shameless suck-upage: love your vids!)

Anyway, I'm just thankful that this thread didn't blow up underneath anyone due to that thing about Kenshin. Knowing the fanboys, fangirls, and others out there, that can be a VERY touchy subject.


Recently, I've been venting my frustration about over-popularity of certain anime and manga over in the Fruits Basket Comedy AMV thread in General AMV. Frankly, I'm having the dangdest time trying to see why this show is so popular, and why, despite it's popularity, I can't find any decent vids of it! It's like no one's bothered to make an actual good VID that can hold it's own!

Most vids expect the viewer to have a VERY fundamental working knowledge of the characters in order to get the jist of their "humor", and frankly I find that to be a BAD way to go about making an AMV. The best way to do it is to find a song that fits the anime (even if there are more than one anime in the vid) and then edit it so that any jokes or drama come out through the characters ACTIONS and not based on what you know of the characters.

Basically, it's just bad editing with bad direction! I can't stand it! The worst part is that I see the vid and KNOW that the maker had their heart in the right place, but there were critical errors in timing or creation that just take away from the vid.

Sometimes it's a total noob error, like leaving in subtitles without making any effort to remove them, or worse, taking entire clips of the show, WITH subs, and trying to merge that with the song in the vid. I get the feeling then like I'm watching a clip from a fansub instead of a vid!

It's just... BAD! The worst example of that I ever saw was the Case Closed [Detective Conan] Sniper video. More than 3/4 of the vid was just a sub of a specific episode of Conan!

BAD AMV DIRECTOR! NO TWINKIE!

Even though I don't make vids myself, I wish I could given better resources (like those $300 computers mentioned earlier, I couldn't even come close to getting something that can render a vid) and more time (wife and full-time job). My career goal is to become a Game Director; the guy that is essentially the brains and creative genius behind a game, like how Will Wright is to the Sims series, and Tim Schaefer is to Psychonauts.

Because of my aspirations, I've taken a strong interest in design and what makes something a good design over a bad design. Problem is, this same pattern of thought applies to my view of music vids, and unfortunately, I haven't got much to go on as far as really good vids. There's only about a handful as far as I can see of really exceptional talent that makes me want to replay the vid or enjoy the vid first go-around.

Part of it may stem from the addition of more anime to TV, but I'm not going to discuss the merits and flaws of more anime on TV here. That's for another thread. The problem is that with more fans comes more misses than hits, because not everyone is as good a director as some may think.

What's worse is when a fan gets a really great idea, something that could be so great and exceptional and unique, and then COMPLETELY drops the ball because they don't know what they're doing. It just burns me up inside and makes me want to re-do the vid because I am so sure I could fix what went wrong if I had the proper time and tools.

Aggravating, no?

Anyway, what I really want to figure out is how can the people who make the really good vids, the ones that win awards and have the best track records, come and help out the young noobs and first time AMV makers so that they don't fall pray to the same trappings that make for bad vids.

Does anyone have any ideas?

~Otaku-Man
www.hammergirlanime.com - Rochester, NY's only store devoted completely to anime, manga, anime/manga merchandise, and pocky! Pachinko machines for sale and Initial-D 3rd Stage Arcade Game in store!

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