LOok AwEsoME - Stephanie Nadolny doing KaMeHAmeHa!!! 8-)

User avatar
Wedding_Angel
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 11:52 am
Location: UK
Org Profile

Post by Wedding_Angel » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:20 am

angelx03 wrote:
But the English dub for Yuki had a suave voice. Hell, my sister went gaga over him because of that (she's not really into girly-gay bishounen; thank GOD she has taste).
i havent heard the american dub of fruits basket yet, i dont think i could bear it. as far as im concerned yuki wasnt meant to be sauve he was meant to be quite girly/feminine..more of a pretty boy, he wasnt meant to be a stud...more beautiful than buff.

as for women doing male parts..well..maybe only for the boys whos voices havent broken yet right?

and also.american cartoons have good voice actors for kids..why cant that be the same for anime? even though, i guess, its not AS popular
Image

User avatar
OtakuMan22
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:27 pm
Location: Rochester, NY
Org Profile

Post by OtakuMan22 » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:03 am

You know, there is a VERY good reason why women often do the voices for young male bishonen type characters. In fact, this reason is probably why women do voices of bishonen to begin with.

It all started a long time ago in Japan...

The year was 1914, and a new theater production group, known as Takarazuka, gave their first ever performance. In Japan, traditional Japanese plays were all male, and only within the last century or so did females begin participating in theater productions (although I believe they still teach all-male Kabuki and such just to keep tradition alive). The people in the Takarazuka, however, were ALL FEMALE!

The Takarazuka Revue Company, as the name of the company officially became in 1940, was the first all-female theater troop in Japan, and remains PURELY all female to this day! The Takarazuka music school, founded in 1913 (a year before their first production), continues to train and educate young women to be actresses in the Takarazuka theater troop, and they have a PERMANENT stage set up in Osaka called the Takarazuka Grand Theater.

Now early on, mothers would often take their daughters to see the all female theater troop perform plays of their own making and ones made by others. The Takarazuka brought "West Side Story", "Gone With The Wind", and other western plays to Japan for the first time ever. In 1974, they did one of their most famous productions on "The Rose of Versailles", which is considered one of the greatest Shoujo manga ever, and a clear influence for Revolutionary Girl Utena.

Like I had said, mothers often took their daughters to the Takarazuka troop for entertainment. The Takarazuka presented women in very strong and positive light, and more importantly, made men PRETTY! The Takarazuka, as far as I can tell, was where the first occurrence of the modernly accepted "Bishonen" style appeared. The men in Takarazuka productions, as portrayed by women, were handsome, elegant, charming, and of course, often hid villanious streaks if they were actually bad people.

HOWEVER, what came across to the little girls who went to Takarazuka plays was that the men portrayed in them were the IDEAL men! Girls grew up half expecting men to be as charming, as elegant, and PRETTY as the women represented them. It's even considered acceptable that young girls formed CRUSHES on the women that played the men in the Takarazuka productions. One might say this led to some form of lesbianism, in one form or another, by encouraging girls having crushes on the pretty women playing men. An example of how that would work can be seen between Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune, not to mention in Utena.

Of course, the norm for that kind of thing was that girls would grow out of their crushes for the females playing men, and find themselves a nice guy who shared traits that the Takarazuka women portrayed. Find their own "Prince Charming" or "Yuki Sohma" or "Tamahome" if you will.

Basically, the bishonen and pretty boys of manga can all practically be traced to the women who played men in the Takarazuka theater productions. As for the women who are in Takarazuka, they can either continue to be in plays, or go on to other forms of acting, such as being in movies, television, becoming pop idols or other musically attributed occupations. A recent article I found showed a woman from the Takarazuka theater going on to do puppeteering for the Japanese version of Sesame Street. (Sesame Street in Japanese... THAT would be weird to see!)

For young aspiring actresses and young aspiring musicians, singers, and the like, Takarazuka is the place to be for the proper training and practice to get out into the world of theater. For the women that go to see Takarazuka, they leave impressed and awed, and it often shows in their manga where they draw the pretty boys and the like.

:record scratch: Alright, alright... I've gotten away from the main topic about how this reflects in women doing male voices in anime, even if they aren't kids. Like I said, women played men in the Takarazuka theater, so it's no surprise that they can play men in anime too as seiyuu. Their voices add that "feminine" charm that makes girls go gaga over the guys. The voice of Sailor Uranus, I recall, had a number of roles where she had to play the feminine guys.

So what about other not-so feminine characters like Goku and Kenshin (both voiced by women in the original Japanese)? For Goku, he was a kid to begin with and a goofy one at that. The woman who did his voice showed his kid like side, and was able to sound like a young kid thanks to her voice training. As Goku grew up, she compensated for his age by deepening her voice a little, but by still being a "she", she was able to help keep Goku's childishness intact with everything he says. Plus, she has literally perfected the best way to say:

"KAAAAA-MEEEEE-HAAAAA-MEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

So in short, I believe that most women who play men in anime are cast that way for two main reasons. They are there to show the character's prettiness by having the voice match the looks, or they are there to show a character's childishness (whether they actually be a child or not).

Now all that's left is the men. Where do they fit in with all this? Well, frankly the male voices in anime often come off as very low and deep. Almost rough as though they can pop out of the TV screen and kick your ass. The most manliest voices I've ever heard in an anime were from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. The seiyuu for that were all guys (for the male characters of course) and they exemplified the manliest of manliest roles, even the pretty boy Vanilla Ice (whose name was obviously changed in the western release for obvious reasons) had a deep and tough voice despite his appearance. After all, he had one of the most powerful attacks out of all the characters!

In Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, there is not a SINGLE pretty boy in sight, and despite that fact... the members of CLAMP fondly recall Jotarou Joestar, the most popular of the Jojo clan, as the coolest and hottest guy ever! (In the music vid, Clamp In Wonderland, the last character they show is a chibi, and then non-chibi version, of their rendition of Jotarou Joestar)

So finally, to wrap this all up in a nice tidy package -

If you want a manly man for your anime, cast a guy to do the voice

If you want a pretty boy for your anime, cast a girl to do the voice

If you want a woman, tomboy/girly-girl/etc., cast a girl to do the voice.

After all, can you think of one instance where a guy played a girl in an anime? :)

~Otaku-Man
www.hammergirlanime.com - Rochester, NY's only store devoted completely to anime, manga, anime/manga merchandise, and pocky! Pachinko machines for sale and Initial-D 3rd Stage Arcade Game in store!

User avatar
OtakuMan22
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:27 pm
Location: Rochester, NY
Org Profile

Post by OtakuMan22 » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:06 am

Awww geez! Sorry for the double-post! My bad! I just realized I forgot to put a link in for my Takarazuka information. This link is a short summary of the Takarazuka's history from the English version of their website:

http://kageki.hankyu.co.jp/english/history.html

The rest of my backup information came from the book "Samurai From Outer Space" which is now out of print.

The rest is all educated guesses and theory.

~Otaku-Man
www.hammergirlanime.com - Rochester, NY's only store devoted completely to anime, manga, anime/manga merchandise, and pocky! Pachinko machines for sale and Initial-D 3rd Stage Arcade Game in store!

User avatar
Wedding_Angel
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 11:52 am
Location: UK
Org Profile

Post by Wedding_Angel » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:13 am

woooh..

well, i guess that sums it up...

well done otaku man...you have done your research
Image

User avatar
TruIdiotsPlaysmArt
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:09 am
Location: inside a birthday cake
Org Profile

Post by TruIdiotsPlaysmArt » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:18 am

OtakuMan22 wrote:Awww geez! Sorry for the double-post! My bad! I just realized I forgot to put a link in for my Takarazuka information. This link is a short summary of the Takarazuka's history from the English version of their website:

http://kageki.hankyu.co.jp/english/history.html

The rest of my backup information came from the book "Samurai From Outer Space" which is now out of print.

The rest is all educated guesses and theory.

~Otaku-Man
mhmm i have that book lol good stuff
Why did the Chicken cross the road?
Colonel Sanders' Answer: I missed one?
Jessica Simpson 's Answer:
Why would he be one a road, I thought chickens lived in the ocean?

User avatar
bobbarker31
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 12:09 pm
Location: Latitude 40.063 Longitude -80.721.... in the general vicinity
Contact:
Org Profile

Post by bobbarker31 » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:02 pm

Otakuman posted... hmmm :? I better print this out and take my time in the restroom...always a good read though :P

The English dub of Nadia The Secret of Blue Water casted age specific voice actors to handle the roles of Nadia, Jean, and Marie. It was very well done and I think it held up well after time. :D
If it can't be expressed in numbers or figures, it is an opinion - Robert Heinlein
Like anime? Cosplay? Crossovers? AMVs? You need to go to....
Image

User avatar
OtakuMan22
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:27 pm
Location: Rochester, NY
Org Profile

Post by OtakuMan22 » Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:08 pm

Otakuman posted... hmmm I better print this out and take my time in the restroom...always a good read though
*does anime-style collapse with both feet sticking up in the air*

*from floor: * I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted! :P
The English dub of Nadia The Secret of Blue Water casted age specific voice actors to handle the roles of Nadia, Jean, and Marie. It was very well done and I think it held up well after time.
I remember the original dub of Nadia back when the first 8 episodes were done by Streamline Pictures. Now, I'm currently watching the new dub with my wife, although I still have a few tapes of the old dub. I remember reading that they went through an extensive casting regimen to find the right voices for Jean, Nadia, and Marie. I too think they did an excellent job, and if done right, kids voices in an anime can be strong, powerful, and accurate (I am especially impressed with Jean's French accent).

The catch, of course, is in FINDING these people. Most VAs in the states are all part of a dubbing company, and instead of hiring specific people to do voices bit by bit, I believe the anime companies (ADV, Viz, Geneon, etc.) hire the group and then pick and choose the voices out of its members, who usually offer a wide range of talent. This helps save time and money for the dubbing process since kids voices can usually be covered by the ladies and are often done quite well. Children are not often part of voice acting groups like this, but that doesn't mean that there are exceptions.

For example, Al from Full Metal Alchemist IS played by an actual child. He's done other anime work before this, and is now a regular in the anime VA community, despite the fact that he's, what, 12-13 by now?

Children can make great VAs, but there are two problems:

1) Finding the right voice for the character
2) Training them to understand and realize what's going on in the script (This is a major role of the voice director, who if not good with kid VAs, may have a tough time here if he/she isn't patient)
3) Does the childish voice fit the character best?

With the lack of child VAs in the anime community, finding and training new ones would be very expensive and time consuming, especially if the anime to be dubbed in question isn't a masterpiece or classic.

Nadia, however, IS a classic, and calls for some very strong and important child roles. Because of this, ADV did take the time and money to find the right voices for Jean, Nadia, and Marie, and paid off in spades! The accent and feel they give to the story is well done, and not once do they feel out of place. It was a pricey move, but it was worth it. Whether or not this will happen again for other anime is a good question. While as ADV proved, it CAN be a good investment, the question is whether or not the same success can be done twice?

And so it goes that unless more children out there try out for parts in anime, or take the time to sign up with The Ocean Group or other dubbing studios, then chances are unlikely that more kids will be used to voice kids in anime.

~Otaku-Man

P.S. Thanks for the compliment. It's because of the knowledge and significance of anime that I studied the books and shows in the first place. :)
www.hammergirlanime.com - Rochester, NY's only store devoted completely to anime, manga, anime/manga merchandise, and pocky! Pachinko machines for sale and Initial-D 3rd Stage Arcade Game in store!

User avatar
jimmy_neutron
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Org Profile

Post by jimmy_neutron » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:37 pm

Wedding_Angel wrote:
angelx03 wrote: But the English dub for Yuki had a suave voice. Hell, my sister went gaga over him because of that (she's not really into girly-gay bishounen; thank GOD she has taste).
i havent heard the american dub of fruits basket yet, i dont think i could bear it. as far as im concerned yuki wasnt meant to be sauve he was meant to be quite girly/feminine..more of a pretty boy, he wasnt meant to be a stud...more beautiful than buff.
As for watching Fruit Basket dubbed, i'd advice you "DONT". It's horrible. In saying that i started of watching the whole series in Japanese so it was hard for me go to the english. But listening to the english version, Yuki was to manly and the characters were lacking emotion. I never connected with the english, however this doesnt mean i'm a sub person, i also enjoy the english but in this instance i'd have to put my foot down and say Fruits Basket was dubbed horribly. I think the worst part of it all was that Tohru wasnt funny.

I also think ghost in the shell - Stand alone complex, the woman who played Major wasnt extremely well done. She wasnt tough enough, she looked the part of intimidating people but if the voice does fit then it just goes down hill from there.

Wow. Otaku Man, your avatar totally suits you - The brain, the big massive brain....that's one extensive explanation but very interesting indeed.

User avatar
jimmy_neutron
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm
Org Profile

Post by jimmy_neutron » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:39 pm

Edit - correction - meant to say if the voice "doesnt fit"

Locked

Return to “General Anime”