Robotech vs Gundam

[SulliMike23]

Actually Funnels were introduced in Gundam Zeta.

Well, this is one question to be reckoned with. Technologically speaking, Macross does have the better advantage with their fighters being able to transform three different times and have more destructive weapons, the SDF-1 Macross having that pinpoint barrier, the Destroids having heavy weapons, and the spaceships being so huge...I'd say that the Feddies and Zeeks are screwed.

However, when it comes to close combat I'd say mobile suits have the better advantage. Afterall, the GM, Gundam, Zaku, Dom, Gelgoog, Gouf, plus many other mobile suit models have very powerful close-combat weapons while Valks can only use their gunpods, missiles, and cutting lasers. The Destroids have their heavy weapons but hardly any maneuvering capabilities; not to mention they can't get off the hulls of the ships they're attached to without drifting off into deep space. The ships belonging to the Zeon and Federation could easily surround the Macross and bombard it without having to worry about the pinpoint barrier, since it can't protect every inch of the ship.

Then of course the Zentradi are a race of giants whose society is based completely on war. Their reflex weapons and other types of weapons could easily dismantle the Feddies and Zeeks to pieces and destroy the colonies and reduce the Earth in UC 0079 to a lifeless heap of rock.

But we should also take pilot skills into account, which can varry depending on who's piloting what. With the thinking caps installed in the helmets of Valkyrie pilots, they can easily move their craft and render a whole team of mobile suits helpless. But then we have the ace Zeon and Federation pilots not to mention the newtypes on both sides.

Like Heero said, there's too many "what-ifs" in this sort of situation.

[yuppa]

ok heres a sampla scaenario.....

Roiy fokker is cruising around with skull squadron in earth ornit..

Roy" hey ..macross im detecting a fold operation approaching my location please advise"

Back aboard the macross admirable gloval sees the macrosses warning lights light up the bridge.

"commander hayes! whats is goin on out there?" The admiral states. lisa is busylily typing in the disturbnaces.

"commander it seesm that there is a unknown ship de folding roughly two thousand klicks dead ahead" Commander gloval commands"all hand on deck!! prepare for battle!! All availiable Pilots to lauch now!" "commander fokker .. you our our first wave with skull squadron"

"Yes sir sir!!" Roy sees the ship in his sights and tries to verify its design

"what the hell is that? it isnt zentradi!" Just then a high intensity beam flies across roy fokkers valkeries nose and he is hailed

This is the federation ship white base.... stop and disengage your hostile approach unknown craft.. if you continue to approach you will be destroyed" Nina purpleton is on the bridge and lookin at the ships outside.

"captain.. i have never seen those type of craft before! could they be a new zeon protype?" I dont know mrs purpleton.. but i have a hunch that they might know where to find unit two. Send out Uraki and the rest of the mobile suits.. Take them alive if at all possible Uraki...."

Uraki: yes sir!... Uraki looks to the side and sees captain mancha tryin to look up ninas skirt again, "hey mancha!! stop lookin at nina!!"
Mancha : hey!! i can lok if i wanna kid!"

"launch now" the commander barks and they fly in to battele.

Uraki : unknown craft! cease and desist.. please follow us back to our ship for questioning. you will be treated with respect and unharmed"

Roy: WHo the hell are you people? .. Thi sis what i say to your offer.

Roy does a immelman turn and approaches the mobile suits and lock on to them. "Here eat these!!" Roy launches a flirry of multiple missles toward uraki in unit 1 and mancha and also the whitebase

Uraki: "OH shit!!" uraki suddenly climbs and weaves through th emissles all the while mancha does similiar fashion.
Mancha: "were under attack!! fire at will!!" Mancha tries to shoot at the fighters. and misses them widely, "DAMN IT... they are really fast!" Manchas mobile suit takes a hit on the left side, "uungh" damn.. what are these things?"

Back on the bridge of the macross....

Comander!! roys squad is under attack!! ready th emacross cannon? Lisa hayes ask th ecommander

"rwady it to fire on the new ship and the enemy fighters"

back on the whitebase....
Commander the enemy vessel in front of us ia building a energy change!!
"what the?? prepare to fire our own beam cannon!! directly ahead as well!!"
Suddenly th emacross cannons fire.. and then th ewhite bases cannons fire they hit in the mddle distance and cancel eack other out. Both captains sat..."What th ehell??"

back in sopace. Uraki is chasing after roy fokker and hes scored a few hits on his fighter.
Roy: damn!! get off my ass kid!!
Uraki gets pissed," i am not a kid damn it!! and he grabs ahold of roy sfighter, " Got you!!" Roy changes to battloid mode and smiles..." No i have you!" roy punches urakis gundam and he looses his grib on him.

Uraki: arrgh!! dam you!! he whips out his beam saber and slashes roys fighter in two.. killing roy fokker. hahh.. haaah.... got you you bastard.

Whitebase: move aside uraki.. were goin to destroy yhe other ship and end this ...." white base fires its main cannons again and it streaks toward the macross..."

back on th ebridge of macross: "commander... they have fired their main cannons again.. we cant stop it what do we do?" commander global sits down and puffs his pipe..."we die" Just them the bridge is obliterated and with it th emacross"

[SulliMike23]

I see a few things wrong with this scenario. 1) Uraki wasn't a pilot for White Base he was a pilot for the Pegasus-class Albion. 2) Nina Purpleton is a scientist for Anaheim Electronics, not a Federation officer. 3)The Albion crew or the Earth Federation for that matter would not fire unless fired upon if they ever come in contact with unknown targets. 4)There's no such thing as a fold drive in the UC Gundam era or in any other Gundam era either.

Not to mention there's a heck of a lot of spelling errors and Roy Fokker isn't the only pilot from the Macross. Also, I seriously doubt that the Albion, or White Base for that matter, would ever leave a dent in the Macross when fighting it alone. I must say that this entire situation is VERY flawed.

[Heero_Yuy84]

Actually Funnels were introduced in Gundam Zeta.

And if we wanted to get into brass-tacks, we could then go further back to argue the Elmeth's bits (essentially the prototype for funnels) so the Psycomu technology needed WAS available back then, albeit nowhere near as refined as we see it in CCA

[madbunny]

I'm so surprised that this hasn't been locked yet (since it's a VS thread), but on the other hand it's so incredibly amusing to watch that I'm also glad.
Taking the advice of an earlier post I looked up RPG stats and discovered an entirely new level of geek-ness. On robotech.com for example I found roughly 30 threads that covered exactly the same topic. I guess some ideas just beg to be played out.

As to who would win, I guess it depends on just how much you want to narrow the field doesn't it? I mean, if you include everything shown as a potential for combat, then robotech wins hands down since the Zentradi can just turn the whole planet into a cinder. A pyrrhic victory to be sure, but still a victory. If it's just the MBT mecha of the shows duking it out, then it's probably just a matter of resources. Even in the show, the only reason the SDF didn't get wasted, other than that it would end the show is that they wanted to capture it.

Looks to me like the back and forth goes something like this:

Gundam mech win at hand to hand. Lets face it, even though they were designed to fight Zentradi hand to hand they would probably get bent over the nearest building and deflowered. Fortunately, mecha probably use lots of lube. RT fighters own at distance. Those gundam mecha would be little flashes of light. Personally, I suspect that the RT fighters would do ok at medium range as well what with all the homing missiles and stuff. The Gundam series has all sorts of 'handwavium' tech just like the robotech series. N-jammers and whatnot. Anytime you start looking at the absurdly huge numbers in the RT universe though, the Gundam world falls to peices. UN spacey, Zentradi, Robotech Masters, Invid, and so on.

Gundam gets some nice nifty toys later on in the series, but I still doubt it would be enough to win since they don't have Minmei.

GP-03 Dendrobium Stamen and Orchis: Big boy from 0083. Has an I-Field that is like a pin-point barrier and an array of weaponry, including a huge beam cannon that can destroy a UC Gundam sized ship in one shot. Problem with this is that the I-Field can be bullied through by constant bombardment from ASC and Zentraedi vessels.
GP-02 Physalis: Gundam from 0083. Heavily armored and carries a bazooka that fires a tactical nuke, which I will generously estimate at 300 kiloton yield. Very dangerous if allowed to be fired at a grouped squadron of vessels. Problem is that it only has one warhead to be fired, which makes it pretty useless.

GP-01 Zephyranthes: Another 0083 gundam. First of rhe GP series and was designed for close combat, which is also it's major down-fall. Easy pickings for Shadow Alpha/Betas and Quaedluun-Rau (FPAs).

AMX-002 Neue Ziel: 0083 mobile armor. Defeated the Dendrobium GP-03 before using a suicidal attack to destroy a small fleet. More maneuverable than the Dendrobium and has an array of weaponry, including a mega particle cannon which could be compared to the Synchro-Cannon. But, numbers can defeat it. .

Gundam Wing/Endless Waltz: While we already know the capabilities of these Gundams, they have been proven to not be indestructable. Wing/Zero/Wing Custom have shown to have BFGs. But, those BFGs, I doubt, can penetrate a pin-point barrier or the barriers of the Masters ships. Let's not forget that those BFGs can be canceled out by the array of BFGs provided by the SDF-1, SDF-2, SDF-3 and the Zentraedi monitors (the ones that bombarded Earth). Deathscythe uses stealth. I say again, Shadow Fighters. Heavy Arms uses long-ranged weaponry. The Robotech side has more than enough of that, especially in the form of Destroids (especially the Tomahawk and it's particle cannons). The biggest threat is Shenlong/Altron, which is a major wild card. Sandrock and his homies (the mercs) would be compared to a regular destroid/VHT/Quadrano battalion. Tallgeese variants and Epyon are also wild cards.

G-Gundam: It's like DBZ, so it doesn't count.

...But those are mostly 'one offs'. Heero in Wing 0 is only one pilot. RT has squadrons of its best mecha (Skull, etc). So it becomes a numbers game...

...Wing does have their own super warships to answer the SDF-1. They have both Barge, and Lybra...

...actually the SDF-1's main gun isnt as powerful as you think. yeah, it would wipe and intireZeon or Federation Fleet out of the sky,.. but planetary damage would only be around 30 or 40 megatons,.. about enough to devastate a state. as as we've seen,.. is about equal to the blast Gundam Zero can make...

...But, here is another theory, considering the RDF and the Federation have similar goals they may team up, of course, Zion and the Zentraedi would likely not team up considering if done in the earlier stages of the macross saga the Zentraedi would just as likely shoot at them as they would the RDF and Federation...

...minovsky effect...
...buster rifles...
...saturation attack...
...tactical nuke...
...max vs newtype....
...max is an OLDtype you bastard he can't read minds!...
... cyclone cycles... hovertanks...alpha fighters... shadow fighters...

The most prominent tactic in Robotech is to begin a battle with a long range volley at the enemy to soften forces. Then combat moves into a more traditional furball. The Gundam battles I've seen play more like duels (with meelee weapons for cryin out loud! Who brings a knife to a gun fight?).

As for armour... a volley of mini missiles from an Alpha can take out 6m of armour. Scott gives that statistic when he is busy destroying an Invid hive (after Rand and Annie shut down the sensor). I don't believe that the Gundams are six meters thick.

And what does the ease of piloting have to do with anything? Remember that Max actually DRESSED his battloid in zentraedi clothes. There's a level of conrol there that is phenomenal... and that's not even a special mecha like Wing 0 or Sandrock. That's just a plain old VF-1A.

So in the end it seems like Driving a Gundam Mech is like going to a fistfight with a big crodocile dundee style knife only to discover that your opponent is on the rooftop across the street with a rifle. If you can make him come close you have a chance... but good luck with that.

[yuppa]

I see a few things wrong with this scenario. 1) Uraki wasn't a pilot for White Base he was a pilot for the Pegasus-class Albion. 2) Nina Purpleton is a scientist for Anaheim Electronics, not a Federation officer. 3)The Albion crew or the Earth Federation for that matter would not fire unless fired upon if they ever come in contact with unknown targets. 4)There's no such thing as a fold drive in the UC Gundam era or in any other Gundam era either.

Not to mention there's a heck of a lot of spelling errors and Roy Fokker isn't the only pilot from the Macross. Also, I seriously doubt that the Albion, or White Base for that matter, would ever leave a dent in the Macross when fighting it alone. I must say that this entire situation is VERY flawed.

LOL yeah i know. i was seein if someone would notice these little imperfections in the scenario^^. i see you did . hehehe wel it was for fun,,, and i HATE fokker..