Where does the dumpy loser image anime has come from

[arzuro]

Well how's this then, if anime fans weren't dumpy losers, then why are the male main characters of romantic anime (especially harem) usually dumpy losers. Is it so the observer can think "wow that is so totally unlike my situation, this is a great anime".

[Scintilla]

If people would stop all the cosplay, chibi, engrish, overly happy or cute and all that stuff then anime would be something that could be taken seriously.

I refuse to make that trade-off

[EmilLang1000]

Dumpy losers, huh? Let's review:

Ranma Saotome (Ranma 1/2)


Loser? No. Most popular jock in school with more suitors than teeth, most of which he doesn't even want? Oh yeah.

Kyo and Yuki (Fruits Basket)


Losers? Well, maybe Kyo, but he's an ass 90% of the time, so you can't blame people for hating him. Dumpy? They can both kick almost any other character's on the show's asses nine ways to sunday.

Tenchi Masaki (Tenchi Muyo!)


Loser? Maybe not the most popular guy in school, but in no way a geek, either. Practices Kendo and is a shinto priest in training, two admirable qualities.

Keitaro Urashima (Love Hina)


Loser? Well, yes. No disputing it there, Keitaro isn't what you would call a lady's man, super genius, etc. But when it comes to sheer dumb luck (and immortality) you can't really beat him.

Rick Hunter (Robotech: The Macross Saga)
Loser? Well, the girl he loves barely notices he's alive, she's a pop star, so she doesn't even see him all that often, and he doesn't notice that someone else is in love with him. But then again, being UN Spacy's top Defence Force pilot, and leader of Skull Squadron, survivor of being a POW of the Zentron Armada, and having gone on how many suicide missions, returning with minimal harm to his person; something tells me the only thing about this guy that's at a loss is his love life.

The question is, why do most Romances in GENERAL have losers for heores? Because people just generally want to see the underdog win, especially if he's a nice guy who deserves someone who loves him for who he is. Barely EVER are the male leads "dumpy loser" like you said; sure, they have their problems, but many of them are either just everyday people or even popular people who just can't get the whole love thing down.

It's all a matter of the good guy getting the girl. No one wants to see the typical outcome: the oversexed, intellectually debilitated, asshole jock is the most popular guy in school and gets the girl. Ranma, mind you, is an idiot, is an asshole jock (not like everyone else doesn't notice, and not the same arrogance as, say, a football jock, more like a "so stupid he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut" jerk), but he does have many moments when he's actually really nice; plus, you know he and Akane have feelings for one another, and it's inevitable that something happen, but their both stubborn mules who won't forgive the other.

Think of There's Something About Mary; there's your typical romantic comedy (minus the "hairgel" thing), where the hero is a loveless underdog , who by all means deserves someone, but who can't forget that one girl he's still in love with. Romances are the same no matter which side of the ocean you're on.

[EmilLang1000]

This is the pic that goes with Rick Hunter.

Secondly, anime is taken seriously, at least a little bit. Hayao Miyazaki has actually replaced Walt Disney as being the world's most bloved animator; Anime in general is growing in popularity by the year; cosplaying, things like that, those are half the fun. That's like telling Trekkies or Star Wars fans to not cosplay, and as more and more anime comes out, people realize that there are good and bad animes, just like American shows, and some are amazing, rivalling shows like Firefly or X-Files in the coolness factor (Cowboy Bebop and Fullmetal Alchemist for a few, CN's top 2 animes). Half of the alure of Anime is that it, to Americans at least, pushes the bounries of what's conventional in animation, and what you can and can't do. Robotech is still one of the top-rated and most-beloved shows of the 80s (it's considered main-stream sci-fi it's so popular), Akira, Ghsot in the Shell, Spirited Away, and Princess Mononoke are all on the top-10 best animated movies list on IMDB.

Anime's taken seriously enough. I don't know how many of my friends thought that all anime was like DBZ and mocked it, until I showed them Robotech or Ranma 1/2. To date, I believe I've converted at least 100 people by myself. If Anime were absolutely main stream (which it's becoming, sadly), that would kill part of the fun; liking what you do without fear of repercussions on the part of those around you is admirable. I used to be made fun of for having read The Lord of the Rings; come 2001, however, and I became one of the coolest guys in my classes, because I knew everything about it. It's all a matter of being happy with who you are, even if that means it's a little geeky.

[Solaria735]

If people would stop all the cosplay, chibi, engrish, overly happy or cute and all that stuff then anime would be something that could be taken seriously. It seems like a choice to me.

No it wouldn't, because as Otohiko said, the majority of the problem is that people see anime as cartoons, i.e. meant for children. Sure, BAD cosplay, chibis, Engrish, and extreme perkiness don't really help, but in my experience, most people don't even know about those things unless they actually know quite a bit about anime anyway. That is to say, people who have had no exposure to anime sub-culture or whatever you want to call it don't even know what cosplay or Engrish IS (from what I have seen). Their main criticism seems to be, "Isn't that for five year olds?" and the idea that all anime fans are fat 35-year-olds who have never had a girlfriend and live in their parents' basement.

[arzuro]

Well there may be some cultural difference, but over here the problem is not that it's cartoons.

I don't remember who exactly, but someone pointed out that people want the underdog to win. And why is that, I wonder.

[arzuro]

I find it rather astonishing how no matter what you say about any anime, someone will come up with an in depth analysis and comparison of the subject in question to similar anime, saying things like "while the character development seemed to fast paced" or "it's first and foremost his fear of rejection that makes him not join the motorcycle gang in episode 3". Is that how you treat stuff you really like? Is that appreciation? I'm completely in love with my fiancé, but I've never felt compelled to remove her liver to find out if it was just the perfect shade of purplish red. This lord of the trivial facts thing is something often observed in geek culture.

[Otohiko]

This lord of the trivial facts thing is something often observed in geek culture.

It's broader than that, but individual differences and cultural differences play a role.

I don't think there's anything particularly 'geek' about analyzing everything in mass detail. To me, arguing bitterly over things in excrutiating detail IS appreciation. To me, the liver narrative doesn't quite make sense, but on a more realistic level - yes, sure as hell I pick apart the personalities of people closest to me. To me, that's the idea of appreciation I've been raised with, perhaps as part of my (sub)culture (then again, as I said, for me - being a 'dork' doesn't ring out as a real insult at all).

[arzuro]

Aye, so when you look at a forest you don't think "Wow this is a sweet view" but "I wonder how many pine trees there are in this forest and if there should be more, and what other kinds of trees there are here in comparison, and how many more squirrels would live in this forest if there was 10% more sunlight." To me, looking at a sunset just for the sake of it, that's appreciation. Looking at a sunset and saying "hey check out those long light waves!" is just... queer.

[Malificus]

Aye, so when you look at a forest you don't think "Wow this is a sweet view" but "I wonder how many pine trees there are in this forest and if there should be more, and what other kinds of trees there are here in comparison, and how many more squirrels would live in this forest if there was 10% more sunlight.".

What do you think mathmaticians do? That is one of the core purposes of math itself.

OR using science to figure out why a sunset looks so good. It doesn't mean you appreciate it any less, but your also curious about it maybe as to why it doesn't behave that way at noon.