Editor vs. Creator -- The Ongoing Battle

[PDFarsight]

I would like the community's help with a recent problem I've had.

A friend of mine basically said, "Hey, you should make a Naruto and Sasuke video to [this song]," and recommended about six or seven clips for certain parts ("and when it says 'eye', you should show a picture of the Sharingan"). I thought it was a good idea, so I figured, ok, what the hell, why not. Since I'm the only one with editing experience, I made the video and I sent him periodic exported videos to show him how it was going. He informs me of some timing mistakes and gives ideas (many of them bad ones) and I alter it accordingly. This goes on for about two weeks as I spend 6-8 hours a day editing it together.

So I basically finish putting all the clips in and all but complete the video--nothing left but to add the more difficult special effects and remove some subtitles, clean up the quality, etc.. Suddenly, he has a problem with a ten-second stretch of the video. He thinks it's not as high-quality as the other parts--not the editing, but the actual drawing and inkinng of the anime itself (for those of you that know Naruto, I had put some scenes of Naruto fighting Neji and Gaara in between him fighting Haku). He felt that the scenes in the middle were sub-par in terms of animation and that we should put some prettier stuff in. I agreed that they weren't as "pretty", but they were thematically linked (Kyuubi, what half of the videow as about) and didn't want to mess up the point of the video for the sake of prettiness. I tried using my experience as a playing card, explaining that I had created FIVE music videos (whereas he had created none), I showed the clips to other music video creators and explained it to them (they thought his idea was dumb as well), but nothing would work against him.

This is where we come to a stand-still. He thinks he is the boss of the video because it was his idea; I wouldn't have even made it if not for him and thus I should do whatever he thinks follows his original idea for the video. I think It's half mine as well; after all, he would have nothing but an idea in his head if not for me, and sometimes he should listen to my ideas because of my experience and expertise. We both think that doing what the other one wants will destroy the thematic continuation of the video. We both refuse to make "compromises" because we feel that our themes cannot be compromised without ruining them.

So in the end he talks about submitting it to a-m-v.org on his own account (he already has the almost-finished beta), but it was nowhere near release-quality and I knew he didn't know how to fix it up himself. I told him if he did I would notify the webmaster and show him the raw files to prove I had made the video and not him. He got all mad, said he never dreamed I would betray him like this, he was sure I was just being an asshole for no reason, keep the stupid video. So I offered him a deal: I would fill that ten seconds with "Die, PDFarsight, die" if he wanted me to, but he would pay me $50 for my four minutes and twenty seconds of the video. He refuses, and so we've both got a near-complete video sitting on the shelves because the creator and the editor refuse to compromise on a certain issue. This really bugs me, because it really is a good video; with an extra ten hours of work it would be ready for public release.

Some of you might think "well who needs another Naruto video," but there aren't a whole lot of good ones out there, so I think we could use more GOOD Naruto music videos. The song is not overused and the theme, though somewhat unoriginal, matches the lyrics well. What do you guys think we should do?

Thanks for your time in reading this.

[OmniStrata]

One of the #1 videos was a Naruto vid wasn't it? lol [go scorpions!]

At any rate, don't edit for other people... Plain and simple... I do dedicate videos to people who I think have been important in both life and amv career but nobody has a right to tell me how I EDIT...

[Infinity Squared]

Thanks for your time in reading this.

Damn straight... I can't believe I finished reading that all through

I might get into more of the argument later, but for now I'd like to point out to you that there is a third option, and that is to pretty up the scenes itself which your friend believes are ugly. Filter up that scene or filter the whole video in some sort of way so that it shows a uniformity throughout the whole thing. If your friend is still not satisfied, well, sucks to be him.

[PDFarsight]

One of the #1 videos was a Naruto vid wasn't it? lol [go scorpions!]

At any rate, don't edit for other people... Plain and simple... I do dedicate videos to people who I think have been important in both life and amv career but nobody has a right to tell me how I EDIT...

Generally this is true, but this person is the one who had the idea for the entire video. What he said is true; I wouldn't have made it if he hadn't given me the idea. He sees himself as the "Director" whereas I am just a silly editor.

I might get into more of the argument later, but for now I'd like to point out to you that there is a third option, and that is to pretty up the scenes itself which your friend believes are ugly. Filter up that scene or filter the whole video in some sort of way so that it shows a uniformity throughout the whole thing. If your friend is still not satisfied, well, sucks to be him.

This is a good idea, but knowing that friend I doubt it will matter. If there's a way to boost the quality of that scene, he'll want to do the same thing to every scene. He wanted the video to show to people to convince them to watch anime, and thus be as pretty as possible. He wants to decieve them into thinking that EVERY clip and episode is as pretty as the scenes in the music video (he actually said this). I will look into the filtering, though, and see how I can make it look.

[mikestrife]

What you should NOT upload

Videos you did not make. Please do not upload other people's music videos.

Videos using someone else's editing. All the editing work in the video must be your own - any footage edited by another music video creator must only be used with their consent and with full credit given to their work.

Ok, so the above weren't inteneded for this exact situation, but they still fit.

Editing is most of the work. You'd be nice to give him some credit under the video info as concept/beta tester, but you made the video, you should take the credit for that.

[jubjub2]

There are so many works out there based on the ideas of other people, but carried out by those that can actually put it all together. I'm sure someone once told Van Gogh that the sunflowers were particularly nice and he should paint those. Art is commissioned, but the artist is still given credit for the work, not the person who commissioned it.

You can cater to your friend all you want, but just having an idea doesn't make it happen. If you like the way it looks, then be happy with it --- and let us see it.

[JaddziaDax]

I agree with Jubs, and Infinity...

there are ways to filter your video POST editing to make it look shiney and Better than even DVD footage.. and it can also bring all the footage uniform... you just gotta know how to use AVIsynth to make it work O.O

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... tqual.html

and well expertise counts for nothing on this site, so I doubt that arguement will win anyone over... cause everyone has their own creative ideas, and they will never agree.

Ive done a request in my time, but in no way would I allow someone to micro-manage my work... (nor did she try.. she just wanted some Ayame love!!) and even sometimes betas tend to get on my nerves... (especially when I'm in the finishing stages, or when I just want to stop... I dont have all the infinite room on my computer so i cant put one project down and work on a different one...)

my newest one I wouldnt have thought of it if it hadnt been for JubJub2, granted I give her credit for giving me the idea of course! but I did all the editing.... good thing shes cool about not micro-managing me but I have my "clique" of editorers that we all bounce ideas off of each other... though those ideas are best served in the earlier stages of creating the AMV, and not in the later stages...

Either way, what I'm saying, is that your problems can be fixed, if he really badly wants the AMV to be his way, tell him to go out and buy the program, and get the footage, and make it himself... then he will have the right to complain about how the AMV is cause his will be 100X better than yours by default (that is if he can figure out how to crop off the subs, clean the footage O.O maybe)

i donno, I say finish it and do it YOUR way... just cause he had the idea that doesnt make it his AMV... youre the one doing all the work remember.

[Reigna]

Yeah, I agree with what has been said here. If your friend has that much of a problem, tell him to make it on his own, and maybe offer some pointers and advice on how to get started with the editing. Hopefully your quarrel over the amv won't kill your friendship

[Arigatomina]

If you want to be fair to the prickly idea-man, put a paragraph in the vid description explaining that you started editing the video by request, and that the original idea was provided by that person, but that due to excessive knitpicking you stopped corresponding with him. If you want to be really kind, you can let him put his name down as a co-creator of the video (so it shows on both of your profiles). But as the editor, the 'physical work' is yours to display on this website. We don't have any protections for 'concepts' here. Ideas are taken and reused constantly. As long as you're not using someone else's edited video (the actual edits made to the original anime footage), it's not considered theft. He should have looked into that before he gave his idea to someone else to edit for him.

As for commissions - most internet commisions are set up so the person who pays for it has control over where it's displayed. But the creator (editor in this case) still gets credit for having done the work. Since he didn't pay you, he gets nothing unless you decide to name him as the person who provided the concept when he asked you to edit an amv for him. It's all about the editor, not the muse. Or, you could say it's about the videos, not the ideas.

[Sierra Lorna]

This sounds exactly like some of the stuff silver_moon and I go through...

For the video I'll Meet You, the concept was my idea. I was going to make it on my own but I didn't really want to actually make it. So silver_moon agreed to do it. I told her all of my ideas for the video, gave her tips on it as she worked on it, and even edited some of it, but she did most of the work. So it's basically her video. I asked her to include my username on the video using the Collaberation system, and she was fine with that. Silver_moon and I always help each other out with our projects--things just turn out so much better that way. But whoever does the actual editing, that's who deserves the credit for sure. We also argue a lot over little things in the video, like your friend did. You need to try your best to listen to what someone else is saying and see if it would improve the video, but at the same time, you're the main editor so the final decision will always be yours whether your friend likes it or not.

Your friend didn't even do any editing. Tell him that's not the way the Org catalogue works--the editor is the one who enters his/her video in the catalogue, not the person who gave the idea. But I'm sure he'd appreciate it if you wrote a big "Thank You" or "Idea By ___" for him in your video's credits. Then once you enter the video, mention that it was his idea in the video's comments, and add his username with the Collaboration system so he can get some credit too. That way he can read all of the ops you get on the video and the video will even be entered in his profile. Tell him that should be plenty, since he didn't even do any actual work on the video.

If I were you, I'd hurry up and encode that video and enter it in the catalogue before your friend does...